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Post by mystic on Feb 2, 2022 4:39:22 GMT -8
From a Jewish standpoint I mean?
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Post by alon on Feb 2, 2022 18:40:28 GMT -8
All Isaiah 53 is a Messianic prophecy which points to Yeshua, and early Hebraic thought either supported this interpretation or at least acknowledged it as possible (at least that’s my understanding). Obviously contemporary Judaism does not see it that way.
There was among some sects of the 1st cen CE the view that this chapter refers to the nation of Israel itself. The previous chapter ends:
Isaiah 52:15 ESV so shall he [startle] many nations.
Kings shall shut their mouths because of him,
for that which has not been told them they see,
and that which they have not heard they understand.
Since this speaks of kings (and the nations they represent), there was also a school of thought that Isaiah 53 prophesying of the servant must mean the nation of Israel or a righteous sect within Judaism which suffered Gods’ wrath along with the guilty majority. This view may have been especially attractive to 1st cen Jews because many of the sectarian arguments were over whose halacha was right and who was acting more pious and holy so that they could “make straight the way (path) of the Lord), allowing Messiah to come and issue His righteous reign. It was the impetus for many sects to separate and even leave Jerusalem, such as the community at Qumran.
That is mostly the view of contemporary Judaism: a.) some say it’s Israel, period. b.) Some say it’s either all Jews or just a group of Jews within the overall community. c.) Some will admit it could be an individual. Just not THAT individual). d.) And we should not forget that many do accept that it was Yeshua, that He IS God, and that He will be returning. Most will say we will bring about the coming of Moshiach and His righteous reign by keeping the mitzvoth.
The emphasis on community responsibility is not new. From the beginning Jews have had a strong sense of communal responsibility (a thing we could well learn from them). However in the few centuries after the Roman diaspora Judaism underwent some major changes, to the point it is even in its’ various and varied sects none are like any of the Judaisms of the 1st cen CE. So while there are some similarities it is difficult to compare them or their views directly.
It would be impossible to say “”The Jews” see it this way.” It would depend on which Jews you are talking to. But the easy answer is most think it means Israel (just it isn’t absolutely correct).
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Post by mystic on Feb 25, 2022 3:58:58 GMT -8
In Isaiah 33.19:
A people of a strange tongue you shall not see, a people of speech too obscure to comprehend, of stammering tongue, without meaning.
The Hebrew translation as I am seeing shows:
A people of a strange tongue: (נוֹעָז) like לוֹעֵז. These are all the heathens, whose language is not the holy tongue. ([Other editions read:] These are Assyria and Babylon, whose language is not the holy tongue.) ([Manuscripts read:] These are all the nations whose language is not the holy tongue.)
Is this relating to Christians speaking in tongues? if yes then what is the "holy tongue"?
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Post by alon on Feb 25, 2022 17:17:03 GMT -8
In Isaiah 33.19: A people of a strange tongue you shall not see, a people of speech too obscure to comprehend, of stammering tongue, without meaning. The Hebrew translation as I am seeing shows: A people of a strange tongue: (נוֹעָז) like לוֹעֵז. These are all the heathens, whose language is not the holy tongue. ([Other editions read:] These are Assyria and Babylon, whose language is not the holy tongue.) ([Manuscripts read:] These are all the nations whose language is not the holy tongue.) Is this relating to Christians speaking in tongues? if yes then what is the "holy tongue"?
But no. Tongues always means an intelligible language. A language some can clearly understand. But foreign invaders might speak a tongue no one in the region being invaded could understand. |
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- there are 70 faces to 
