- there are 70 faces to 
Post by alon on Dec 17, 2021 15:26:09 GMT -8
The following is in response to an a claim that the “Holy Spirit was not in any OT characters."
Me: Read your Bible. The Holy Spirit was as active in the OT as in the NT, starting with Gen 1. Bezalel was empowered to oversee the building of the Mishkan (Tabernacle) and the craftsmen under him to a lesser degree; David was empowered to slay Goliath; Moses, Joshua, Daniel; and every Judge and prophet. The list goes on! And the presence in the Holy of Holies would have been the Spirit! Anyone living a righteous life in the OT would have had the same empowerment as true believers do today. I keep Torah, and it is not that difficult most of the time. But I (being human) fail daily. However there is grace; the same grace as in all of biblical history, the grace administered and empowered by the Holy Spirit. Were there not grace in the OT, it all would have ended with Adam. David would have been slain after Nathan confronted him. The doctrine that almost every OT Jew would go to Hell because they couldn't keep Torah perfectly is a lie concocted by the church fathers because almost to a man they were anti-Semitic. God is not a monster to give a "law" no one can keep then punish them eternally for not keeping it! Instead He gave of Himself a perfect sacrifice who could keep Torah perfectly, and who while still under Levitical "Law" forgave sinners who repented. If they were supposed to go to Hell for breaking the "law," it would have been sin to do so and Yeshua/Jesus would have been disqualified as Ha'Moshiach.
She: You've missed the point. In the Old Testament the Holy Ghost "came upon them." He did not dwell IN them as He does now.
Me: Uh, no, just different terminology. If the Spirit was not in Elijah, he wouldn't have even known to try to raise a child from the dead; let alone be able to do it! But if it's "filling" or "in" you want:
Exodus 31:3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with ability and intelligence, with knowledge and all craftsmanship,
NOT just with craftsmanship as some churches teach; "I have filled him with the Spirit of God.”
Numbers 27:18-19 So the Lord said to Moses, “Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him.
So Bezalel was "filled," and the Spirit was "in" Joshua. Just a couple of New ... I mean Old Testament verses to cogitate on.
So is the Ruach IN or ON? Or both? Take your pick, as long as you understand they are the same thing in the respect to indwelling. The Spirit may come upon one as an extra outpouring, however I doubt that happens to anyone who does not already have the Spirit in him unless the Ruach is trying to witness to someone to accept Yeshua as Ha'Moshiach and savior.
Me: Read your Bible. The Holy Spirit was as active in the OT as in the NT, starting with Gen 1. Bezalel was empowered to oversee the building of the Mishkan (Tabernacle) and the craftsmen under him to a lesser degree; David was empowered to slay Goliath; Moses, Joshua, Daniel; and every Judge and prophet. The list goes on! And the presence in the Holy of Holies would have been the Spirit! Anyone living a righteous life in the OT would have had the same empowerment as true believers do today. I keep Torah, and it is not that difficult most of the time. But I (being human) fail daily. However there is grace; the same grace as in all of biblical history, the grace administered and empowered by the Holy Spirit. Were there not grace in the OT, it all would have ended with Adam. David would have been slain after Nathan confronted him. The doctrine that almost every OT Jew would go to Hell because they couldn't keep Torah perfectly is a lie concocted by the church fathers because almost to a man they were anti-Semitic. God is not a monster to give a "law" no one can keep then punish them eternally for not keeping it! Instead He gave of Himself a perfect sacrifice who could keep Torah perfectly, and who while still under Levitical "Law" forgave sinners who repented. If they were supposed to go to Hell for breaking the "law," it would have been sin to do so and Yeshua/Jesus would have been disqualified as Ha'Moshiach.
She: You've missed the point. In the Old Testament the Holy Ghost "came upon them." He did not dwell IN them as He does now.
Me: Uh, no, just different terminology. If the Spirit was not in Elijah, he wouldn't have even known to try to raise a child from the dead; let alone be able to do it! But if it's "filling" or "in" you want:
Exodus 31:3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with ability and intelligence, with knowledge and all craftsmanship,
NOT just with craftsmanship as some churches teach; "I have filled him with the Spirit of God.”
Numbers 27:18-19 So the Lord said to Moses, “Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him.
So Bezalel was "filled," and the Spirit was "in" Joshua. Just a couple of New ... I mean Old Testament verses to cogitate on.
So is the Ruach IN or ON? Or both? Take your pick, as long as you understand they are the same thing in the respect to indwelling. The Spirit may come upon one as an extra outpouring, however I doubt that happens to anyone who does not already have the Spirit in him unless the Ruach is trying to witness to someone to accept Yeshua as Ha'Moshiach and savior.
