Similarities between Christmas and Hanukkah?

[mystic]

I know we have beaten this topic to death but a thought occurred to me last night. Looking at this arbitrarily for a moment, I am thinking there are some similarities between these two festivities so I am looking into what's wrong with things associated with Christmas.

Hanukkah is celebrating the miracles of G-d with the oil and Christmas is celebrating another miracle from G-d giving us the Christ so the question with this I think should be, is it wrong to celebrate the birth of Christ during this season or is it the way in which it is celebrated that's the issue?

Hanukkah involves gift giving so does Christmas so why it is wrong to give Christmas gifts?

Hanukkah is the festival of lights so why is it wrong for Christians to use lights to celebrate Christ?

Is Jeremiah 10 banning the decorating of trees in particular or is that referring to the making of wooden idols for worshipping? Since a Christmas tree is not used for worshipping in any way what makes it wrong please?

[alon]

Nov 29, 2021 3:49:50 GMT -8 mystic said:

I know we have beaten this topic to death but a thought occurred to me last night. Looking at this arbitrarily for a moment, I am thinking there are some similarities between these two festivities so I am looking into what's wrong with things associated with Christmas. I think the key term there is "arbitrarily," as you make some assumptions which are not necessarily true.

Hanukkah is celebrating the miracles of G-d with the oil and Christmas is celebrating another miracle from G-d giving us the Christ so the question with this I think should be, is it wrong to celebrate the birth of Christ during this season or is it the way in which it is celebrated that's the issue? Actually Chanukkah was originally a delayed Sukkot, and the story of the miracle of the oil is a rabbinical midrash found in the Talmud but in no other writings. So we look at this as midrash, a story that is not meant to be believed (even though most Orthodox do as they hold Talmud to be true and equal to or above Torah), but which teaches us something. It's meant to be meditated on, not taken as gospel. AsMessianics we arenot bound by rabbinical tradition of any sort.

Here's the problem of the"celebration of the birth of the Christ" idea: it is entirely possible that Yeshua was conceived on Sukkot and born on Chanukkah. That  would mean He was conceived and born on the same annual feast- a thing only God could arrange!

As for Christmas, even the Catholic churches have admitted this is not the time of the birth of the Christ. It was however a time  to celebrate a birth of a god- small "g," a pagan god! In Rome, the festival of Juvenalia commemorated a feast on December 25, the birthday of Mithra, god of war and Sol Invictus, god of the unconquerable sun. And as this was the time of the wnter equinox,an important time for pagans, other gods shared in this day.

Pope Julius I set December 25 as the day to celebrate Christmas, which coincided with the Saturnalia festival. This was a time of drunkenness and debauchery, so when combined with a religious festival people went straight from church to bars, alleyways, and the beds of strangers even if married.

Christmas was illegal in the US until the early 1800s when Washington Irving wrote The Sketchbook of Geoffrey Crayon in 1819, in which a squire invited peasants into his English manor to celebrate Christmas together. About the same time,  A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens was published which encouraged people to see Christmas as a holiday bringing families and community together in goodwill.

Later traditions were added, most of which have pagan origins and meanings. Santa Claus for example is an embodiment of Father Christmas which pagans believed to be a spirit who flew through the sky during the winter.

Hanukkah involves gift giving so does Christmas so why it is wrong to give Christmas gifts? Take these traditions and combine them with with the demands for gifts, parties, and feasts and one can see how Christmas may celebrate anything but the humble beginnings of Yeshua.

Hanukkah is the festival of lights so why is it wrong for Christians to use lights to celebrate Christ? It's not the lights, it's what they use them for. hey are used to celebrate a pagan festival.

Is Jeremiah 10 banning the decorating of trees in particular or is that referring to the making of wooden idols for worshipping? Since a Christmas tree is not used for worshipping in any way what makes it wrong please? Actually:

Deuteronomy 16:21 “You shall not plant for yourself an Asherah of any kind of tree beside the altar of the Lord your God, which you shall make for yourself.

Many, if not most churches have trees at or on their "altars" this time of year.So there is an element of worship here. And since trees figure so  much in the OT and NT writings, ha'satan has  been busy creating all manor of pagan tree worship! The Norse believed in (and I'll get the spelling wrong, I'm sure) Yigdrasel, a tree in which lived (read that was decorated with) all the creatures of the field and forrest. And even delimbed trees were used, as  in the above mentioned Ashera poles.

I used to talk to some witches online to see what they were about. They knew I was (at the time) a Christian, and believe me they CROWED about all the pagan traditions and origins of Christian holidays, especially Christmas! Here's something from a pagan forum for witches. Someone asked "How do I maximize the power from my witchery Altar? One reply: "Have you put a torch on it, maybe even a Candelabra? The Arthana doesn't increase your power or recharge rate but power distribution range. A demon heart will give a flat 1000 power increase. When it comes to flora, variety is key! I recommend setting up a farm with every possible plant near your altar (Your altar takes power from ~14 blocks away) especially those from the mod! Use mutandis to get new plants. Also, Thaumcraft is supported so try to get a greatwood tree, gives a pretty !@#^ nice boost." Note the use of an altar, and the copying of both the tree theme and the use of a candelabra. This does NOT mean it is ok to do them because they are similar! Nor does it mean we shouldn't just because the pagans do it. It means whatever God establishes, ha'satan establishes a counterfeit. It also means we must think about what we are doing and use a LOT of discernment.     

Source: bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Trees

Just 2 out of  many verses on that same site:

2 Kings 17:10 They set for themselves sacred pillars and Asherim on every high hill and under every green tree,

Ezekiel 6:13 Then you will know that I am the Lord, when their slain are among their idols around their altars, on every high hill, on all the tops of the mountains, under every green tree and under every leafy oak—the places where they offered soothing aroma to all their idols.

I guess the question is, do you want to be among those slain by God?

[mystic]

Great history and insights! I never imagined there would be a forum for Witches.