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Post by mystic on Nov 15, 2021 6:17:59 GMT -8
Are there any scriptural commands on what is supposed to be done with our bodies when we die? Burial or Cremation, does a Priest/Rabbi have to pray over us or can we simply be incinerated in a Morgue without any official praying or service? Sorry for the grim topic guys but I am hearing a lot about these issues especially these days.
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Post by alon on Nov 16, 2021 6:25:41 GMT -8
I have a cremation policy; have had it for many years. The cost of cremation is far less than burial, and I did not want to saddle my family with a huge debt.
Many Messianics do not like cremation because it was practiced by some pagans, in particular the Greeks and Roman worshipers of the militaristic cult of Mithras. Others like the Hittites also cremated heir dead. However these all also practiced burial, so I figure it’s a wash on that point. I can guarantee my family will not be worshiping Mithras when I go. We are a bit strange, but there are limits!
As far as I know, there are no outright biblical instructions regarding disposal of a dead person. The biblical patriarchs buried their dead. Abraham purchased a burial place for his wife Sarah, and later used it for himself as well as Isaac, Rebekah, Leah and Jacob:
Genesis 49:31 (EV) There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife. There they buried Isaac and Rebekah his wife, and there I buried Leah—
God Himself buried Moshe:
Deuteronomy 34:5-6 (ESV) So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord, and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-peor; but no one knows the place of his burial to this day.
By the 1st cen CE the practice was to place the dead in a tomb for over a year and allow the flesh to rot away. Then the bones were placed in an ossuary (a small stone box) and the tomb reused.
Cremation was not typical with the Hebrews, however the Bible does give examples, both good and bad where bodies were burned after death. In Joshua 7, Achan was convicted of an onerous sin and stoned to death, then his body completely burned.
On the other hand, the Philistines killed King Saul and his sons and nailed their bodies to the city wall. Men of Jabesh-gilead heard of it, retrieved the bodies, then burned them:
1 Samuel 31:11-12 (ESV) But when the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead heard what the Philistines had done to Saul, all the valiant men arose and went all night and took the body of Saul and the bodies of his sons from the wall of Beth-shan, and they came to Jabesh and burned them there.
Rav Shaul talks about cremation somewhat ambiguously, although it is not even clear he was even talking about cremation:
1 Corinthians 13:3 (ESV) If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned [Some manuscripts deliver up my body to death that I may boast], but have not love, I gain nothing.
I’ll leave you with this; my son is a funeral director, which I never in a million years could have predicted. However looking at it, it does make sense. From my side of the family he got a pragmatic sense of death. But his mother is a child of the Shoah. She was a late surprise package, not an actual survivor. But to that generation of European Jews, and really all Jews their children were their legacy. Her father and uncle escaped Nazi Germany just ahead of the Brown Shirts. To that generation of Jews especially there is a respect and honor for the dead that frankly a Gentile will never understand. I do not even pretend to. I think he got a lot of that from his mom, even though she is now a converted Christian (who still thinks of my Messianism as “my little bit of mishigas.”)
The bottom line here is we all make our own choices based on our convictions and needs. I think it bothers my son that I chose cremation. My wife won’t talk about it. But I told him that whatever they do after I die is for the living, not for me. If he or my wife overrides my cremation orders then it is ok. I won’t complain.
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Post by mystic on Nov 17, 2021 4:12:54 GMT -8
Thanks for the detailed info. However Dan, my other main query is are there any scriptures stating we need to have a Priest pray over our dead body to "send" our soul to where it needs to be or we do not need for anyone to say any prayer over our dead body before cremation or burial or perform any ritual?
My thinking is for myself, I want to be cremated and without any ceremony or visitors at all, just send me to the Morgue and cremate me and up to my sons if they should want to keep the ashes or not, that is how I wish to go, anything biblically wrong with that in any way please?
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Post by alon on Nov 17, 2021 8:28:41 GMT -8
Thanks for the detailed info. However Dan, my other main query is are there any scriptures stating we need to have a Priest pray over our dead body to "send" our soul to where it needs to be or we do not need for anyone to say any prayer over our dead body before cremation or burial or perform any ritual? My thinking is for myself, I want to be cremated and without any ceremony or visitors at all, just send me to the Morgue and cremate me and up to my sons if they should want to keep the ashes or not, that is how I wish to go, anything biblically wrong with that in any way please?
LOL, I told my family to just put my ashes in the garbage out back and whenever they see a Waste Management truck they can shed a tear ... joking of course. Again, there are no biblical instructions (that I know of), so do as you please. From what you've said, your family is not Messianic at all, so this won't matter; but if they keep your ashes they would become tumah (ritually unclean) whenever they were in the room with them. |
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Post by mystic on Nov 18, 2021 4:26:55 GMT -8
Hmnn, seems I opened up a can of worms here. So I have to ask, what is there "biblically" forbidding a person from being in a room with a deceased ashes "for a christian"?
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Post by alon on Nov 18, 2021 7:29:25 GMT -8
Hmnn, seems I opened up a can of worms here. So I have to ask, what is there "biblically" forbidding a person from being in a room with a deceased ashes "for a christian"?
However you do not have to be in a tent/room to become impure:Numbers 19:16 Also, anyone who in the open field touches one who has been slain with a sword or who has died naturally, or a human bone or a grave, shall be unclean for seven days.
Numbers 19:11 ‘The one who touches the corpse of any person shall be unclean for seven days.’
Priests during their time of service could not even go to their parents graveside or funeral:Leviticus 21:11 nor shall he approach any dead person, nor defile himself even for his father or his mother;
A person under the Nazarite vow similarly could not attend the dead:Numbers 6:6 ‘All the days of his separation to the Lord he shall not go near to a dead person.
Tumah (ritual impurity) could be transferred t objects, which could then infect the condition on anyone touching it:Haggai 2:13 Then Haggai said, “If one who is unclean from a corpse touches any of these things, will the latter become unclean?” And the priests answered, “It will become unclean.”
Actually, today everyone is considered impure because they at some time were in the presence of the dead. Removal of that impurity requires the properly prepared ashes of a Red Heifer, which in turn must be done at the Temple. Since there is no longer a Temple this is not possible. But the laws are kept to the best we can, which would mean long term storage of a corpse in the home, even if just ashes, is a problem. |
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Post by mystic on Nov 19, 2021 3:34:14 GMT -8
GREAT stuff Dan, thank you!
Regarding ashes, I personally can see and understand why someone would want to keep the ashes of a deceased loved one close to them but the scriptures take priority.
Last thing on this, what about keeping a "wake", is there anything biblical against this practice please?
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Post by alon on Nov 19, 2021 11:33:42 GMT -8
GREAT stuff Dan, thank you! Regarding ashes, I personally can see and understand why someone would want to keep the ashes of a deceased loved one close to them but the scriptures take priority. Last thing on this, what about keeping a "wake", is there anything biblical against this practice please? |
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Post by mystic on Dec 23, 2021 5:04:41 GMT -8
Wait a minute Dan, a thought occurred to me. At the 2nd coming of Christ how will he "raise the dead" if they are cremated?
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Post by alon on Dec 23, 2021 6:33:32 GMT -8
Wait a minute Dan, a thought occurred to me. At the 2nd coming of Christ how will he "raise the dead" if they are cremated?
I trust God can recreate us, regardless what happens to the body after death. Believers will receive a new body when Yeshua returns anyhow. |
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