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Post by mystic on May 20, 2021 6:35:09 GMT -8
A lot of Pastors tell people to find "the word of god" which applies to a specific situation or person and pray that prayer over them for for them, is this how Messianics do it?
I really ask for help with anything or anyone using my own words, most I might say at the end from scripture for like healing help for example is "by Jesus stripes x is healed".
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Post by alon on May 20, 2021 11:37:12 GMT -8
Both. However you feel led to pray for someone.
A lot of Pastors tell people to find "the word of god" which applies to a specific situation or person and pray that prayer over them for for them, is this how Messianics do it? I really ask for help with anything or anyone using my own words, most I might say at the end from scripture for like healing help for example is "by Jesus stripes x is healed".
This comes right after Rav Shaul's exhortation to "put on the whole armor of God." There he explains that the sword of the Spirit is the word of God. Yeshua used scriptures from the TNK to deflect the enemy, ha'satan when tempted in the wilderness (Mat 4, Mark 1, Luke 4) so a scriptural prayer can be a very powerful thing. It also (done right) helps us to better know we are praying in accordance with God's will (1 John 5:14). But it is not necessary to pray a scriptural prayer. More often we just pray from the heart, bringing our supplications before the Throne.
But what do I mean inserting "done right" above? Well, we cannot impose our will on God. For example, interpreting "praying at all times in the Spirit" as tongues. "If I just babble, God will grant my request," or "if I wail, groan a lot, and repeat my request, He will grant it." No, we are told He is a God of order (1 Cor 14:33), and we are specifically told not to pray with vain repetitions (Mat 6:7). We also cannot misinterpret the scriptures we use, making them mean what we want instead of searching out what they truly mean.
While there are structured prayers, such as the Amidah that can guide our thoughts, intercessory prayer tends to be more off the cuff; orderly, but not necessarily structured. And it can involve a lot of emotion. However we must not allow our emotions to run rampant, succumbing to the easy route of tongues or vain repetitions. And if the issue is such our emotions do overcome us, or if otherwise genuinely having trouble then yes, the Ruach may step in and help (Rom 8:26-27). But that is not the goal of prayer. Be orderly, and use scripture if you like. And pray from the heart.
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Post by mystic on May 21, 2021 3:00:42 GMT -8
Thanks. On the repetition part, do you mean not ask for the same thing twice in one prayer or praying for that same thing many times per day?
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Post by alon on May 21, 2021 9:40:57 GMT -8
Thanks. On the repetition part, do you mean not ask for the same thing twice in one prayer or praying for that same thing many times per day? I t's not a fixed number or "rule."
"Vain repetitions" refers to the pagan practices of asking over and over, thinking the more often they repeat the request the more likely it is their "god" will grant it. Repeating a request two or three (or even more) times in earnest prayer is not necessarily a vain repetition. But even two times becomes a vain repetition if you think because you said it again God would be more likely to answer. That is evidence of a lack of faith. Droning on and on with the same request probably is also.
As an example, I cannot get flu shots. And I used to get the flu every year. But since finding out I can't get the shots, I have prayed once every year just before flu season that I would not get it. I've been doing this for close to 15 yrs now, and have never once in that time gotten the flu. But I pray once in faith, and at the end of the season I give a prayer of thanks, and that is it. I trust God with the rest. On the other hand, I pray daily for unsaved loved ones. Sometimes 3 or more times a day. I don't go on and on about it in any one prayer, but I do pray often for them.
So the rule is, there is no rule as far as a set formula for "repetitions." There is however praying in faith, which we should do, and praying with a formula (if I say it X number of times, He'll grant my prayer), which is how the pagans do it. God is not a pagan, and neither are you. |
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Post by mystic on May 22, 2021 3:41:15 GMT -8
In one of the IFCJ's articles I had found this:
"Friends, we must pray and pray again. Some things require only a few prayers, and some require many. Keep digging until your breakthrough."
plus many people fast when they need something hoping the fasting and "heavy" praying will grant them the request. Are you saying both situations are wrong "from a biblical standpoint" please?
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Post by alon on May 22, 2021 5:45:00 GMT -8
In one of the IFCJ's articles I had found this: "Friends, we must pray and pray again. Some things require only a few prayers, and some require many. Keep digging until your breakthrough." plus many people fast when they need something hoping the fasting and "heavy" praying will grant them the request. Are you saying both situations are wrong "from a biblical standpoint" please?
This is what I am telling you is there is no set formula for praying. All have their place. It is up to us to discern what and how to pray within the guidelines we are given in scripture. |
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Post by mystic on May 23, 2021 3:38:40 GMT -8
But I do not recall any scriptures where Yeshua wailed and carried on, repeating His prayer over and over like a mantra. That's a great point thanks! I did a lot of research on this [on the net] and the common consensus seems to be praying for around 5 times per day for something. Regarding the IFCJ, a lot times I think they are "reaching" in some of the things they post in their articles. Also, I don't know what to make of them really. I have tried contacting them in the past to ask only or or two specific questions, no response. I had also joined their FB page and asked for a private message but no response. I think that is common with these ministries in general though and it's either they are so big they have the time to respond to each and every member's request or they simply ignore it. I would prefer to support the Holocaust survivors but through an individual or agency in Israel who is in touch with their supports, any advice on how I might be able to find such an Agency or individual please? |
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Post by alon on May 23, 2021 12:10:06 GMT -8
I did a lot of research on this [on the net] and the common consensus seems to be praying for around 5 times per day for something. Consensus on the net can be a dangerous way to set your doctrine. As I said, there is no "magic" number.
Regarding the IFCJ, a lot times I think they are "reaching" in some of the things they post in their articles. Also, I don't know what to make of them really. I have tried contacting them in the past to ask only or or two specific questions, no response. I had also joined their FB page and asked for a private message but no response. I would imagine they are very busy. And their purpose is not to answer questions, but to help needy Jews.
As to what to make of them, like I have said before, they are Rabbinical Jews. Many of those stories are from Jewish lore in the form of midrashim, which are stories that make a point, interpret scripture, or help us to understand. By far most midrashim are not true, and were never meant to be taken that way. You have a very literal mind, and so I think it is difficult for you to get a hold on this concept. But it is one you will have to understand if you are to understand them.
I would prefer to support the Holocaust survivors but through an individual or agency in Israel who is in touch with their supports, any advice on how I might be able to find such an Agency or individual please? There are several Messianic agencies which directly support Israelis in need, including survivors of the Shoa. And, according to an artical in Kehila News Israel these agencies need our support now more than ever: news.kehila.org/can-messianic-humanitarian-organizations-aid-israelis-as-budget-is-slashed-by-1-2-billion/If you give to Messianic Ministries which give aid to Israelis you will also be helping share the gospel of Yeshua with them. Here is a good artical on this which also mentions several agencies making a difference: www.charismanews.com/world/46157-12-ministries-making-a-difference-in-israelI really shouldn't tell you who to give to. But you can do an internet search for Messianic ministries to Israel who provide aid in many different forms. Pick the one that seems to fit with your goals the best. |
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Post by mystic on May 24, 2021 3:22:11 GMT -8
Regarding the IFCJ, a lot times I think they are "reaching" in some of the things they post in their articles. Also, I don't know what to make of them really. I have tried contacting them in the past to ask only or or two specific questions, no response. I had also joined their FB page and asked for a private message but no response. I would imagine they are very busy. And their purpose is not to answer questions, but to help needy Jews.
As to what to make of them, like I have said before, they are Rabbinical Jews. Many of those stories are from Jewish lore in the form of midrashim, which are stories that make a point, interpret scripture, or help us to understand. By far most midrashim are not true, and were never meant to be taken that way. You have a very literal mind, and so I think it is difficult for you to get a hold on this concept. But it is one you will have to understand if you are to understand them.
But you can do an internet search for Messianic ministries to Israel who provide aid in many different forms. Pick the one that seems to fit with your goals the best.I think all Ministries need to operate in the same way as a Church/Synagogue where every member can go to the Priest/Rabbi to consult with them, if they should be a very large organization then appoint qualified people to do it like what the Aish Organization does. I think all Ministries need to remember "from whence they came" when they were just starting out who it was who had supported them before they got big, it took "every" member to do it. So every member should not be a statistic but a valued member. At least, if I myself ever had a ministry no matter how large it would get I would value each and every supporter and would make the time for that person. Yes I would assume that would be the IFCJ's goal but whey they need money, guess what, they will pick up their phone and call you personally. This is what I don't like about any Ministry who wouldn't take the time to address any member. YES, I most certainly do have a literal mind as you've stated, trying to work on this. Thanks for those links, I will look into them but this time I will ask about this issue before joining with any Ministry. |
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Post by alon on May 24, 2021 10:12:04 GMT -8
I think all Ministries need to operate in the same way as a Church/Synagogue where every member can go to the Priest/Rabbi to consult with them, if they should be a very large organization then appoint qualified people to do it like what the Aish Organization does. I think all Ministries need to remember "from whence they came" when they were just starting out who it was who had supported them before they got big, it took "every" member to do it. So every member should not be a statistic but a valued member. At least, if I myself ever had a ministry no matter how large it would get I would value each and every supporter and would make the time for that person. Yes I would assume that would be the IFCJ's goal but whey they need money, guess what, they will pick up their phone and call you personally. This is what I don't like about any Ministry who wouldn't take the time to address any member. YES, I most certainly do have a literal mind as you've stated, trying to work on this. Thanks for those links, I will look into them but this time I will ask about this issue before joining with any Ministry.
Each ministry has a purpose. Aish is a Jewish ministry aimed more at helping Jews who have questions about their faith, so it makes sense they would have rabbonim or counselors of some type available. Orgs like the IFCJ are there to help the jewish people overall by 1. educating Gentiles to the true nature of the threat of ant-Semitism, and 2. helping needy Jews in Israel and in the diaspora. Because of their information gathering and distribution, their admin costs are already high; and they get a lot of criticism for this. Adding to those costs would cost them donors and possibly cripple their ministry.
I don't really know of any Messianic ministries to Israel or the poor that you can just call and talk to someone. But then, my criteria are different when I look to give. That ratio of admin to operating cost is one of the first things I look at, so I would probably have eliminated any like you describe before looking at their specifics. I hpe uou find one that fits your needs.
Just one caveat: any ministry providing advice and/or counseling will have an agenda. There are some out there like the Ebionites who are extremely good at sucking people in slowly, involving you in their heresies before you know what happened. Like the frog boiled slowly in water, your soul is forfeit, and you never saw it coming.
And yes, we too have an agenda. It is stated right up front on our rules page: "This is a forum and ministry for those wishing to learn about and discuss issues regarding a Messianic faith in Yeshua (Jesus) The Messiah and the Messianic Jewish Movement." We try to adhere to this the best we can. But many out there are not nearly so open with their agendas. So as always, check out where and how your money will be spent. And in the case of trying to find a ministry that will advise you, find out all you can about who they are and what doctrines they push before you sign on. This is where that literal mind can be an asset. Ask specific questions, and hold them to their answers. As I said, I wish you luck.
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Post by mystic on May 24, 2021 11:40:32 GMT -8
Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I am not seeking to give to an organization in Israel with whom I can do Bible studies or seek Counseling. I would simply like to know that I am supporting an Organization which will answer any question on the things they do. Tomorrow I will go through the articles you have linked to.
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