|
|
Post by mystic on May 1, 2021 4:51:41 GMT -8
If God had forgiven King David for that most grievous of sins then why didn't he save the son? My thinking is, when you forgive someone and that person needs help why wouldn't you help that person?
Also guys, when it comes to forgiveness in general against people who have wronged you, are you commanded to forgive only if and after that person has asked for your forgiveness, any scriptures to backup whatever the answer is please?
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on May 1, 2021 17:30:28 GMT -8
Sorry it took a while to get to this. I was out of town visiting another assembly today.
Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”
Someone posted a cartoon on fb of Yeshua telling this to His disciples, and one in the back slapped his forehead and thought “Great, not only do I have to forgive my brother, now I have to do math!”
So what does scripture say about forgiving?
Proverbs 17:9 Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends.
Matthew 18:15 If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirs old quarrels, but love overlooks insults.
That last one is kind of about forgiveness. But the point of these three is forgiveness is restorative. It helps maintain both friendships and your witness. They may or may not have asked, but forgive them anyhow.
Luke 17:3b If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Galatians 6:1a Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness.
We may still rebuke one who sins against us if the offense was serious enough, but only in a spirit of gentleness with the aim to restore them.
Romans 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
1 Peter 3:9 Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.
This says to me we should forgive, even when they did not ask. And the purpose is not to be “more spiritual” than they are. It is actually to bless them and in turn receive a blessing yourself.
Matthew 6:14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly father will also forgive you.
Mark 11:25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your father in heaven may forgive you your sins.
Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your father will not forgive your sins.
If you want forgiveness, you must give forgiveness.
Colossians 3:12-13 Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
We hung Yeshua on an execution stake, and He forgave us long before we even sinned. How much more-so should we forgive others.
However do not confuse forgiveness with forbearance:
for·bear·ance (fôr-bâr′əns) n. Tolerance and restraint in the face of provocation; patience.
This quality allows us to weigh the offense and to decide to respond in love rather than anger.
Proverbs 12:16 The vexation of a fool is known at once, but the prudent ignores an insult.
Nor does forgiveness mean there are no consequences:
Hebrews 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
One consequence I can think of would be a loss of trust. Forgiving does not necessarily mean forgetting, and at times it might be prudent to be wary.
This brings us to why God did not save David’s son. You may forgive and choose not to retaliate, but God is not bound by the same rules. He quite often allows us to experience the consequences of our actions so we might learn as well as an example to others.
|
|
|
|
Post by mystic on May 2, 2021 3:37:17 GMT -8
Sorry it took a while to get to this. I was out of town visiting another assembly today.One consequence I can think of would be a loss of trust. Forgiving does not necessarily mean forgetting, and at times it might be prudent to be wary.
This brings us to why God did not save David’s son. You may forgive and choose not to retaliate, but God is not bound by the same rules. He quite often allows us to experience the consequences of our actions so we might learn as well as an example to others. Absolutely no worries at all Dan, I know I usually give you a lot of trouble to ask for scriptures for this, that and the other thing. I appreciate it. Thanks for those scriptures. Yes, of course I am aware that we are to forgive whether asked for it or not but for me personally, that's a big one in bold! Also someone made a good point saying "Even God doesn't forgive us until we turn to Him and express a desire to receive His grace." What do you say to this please? Yes, I kinda figured that would be the answer why God did not save David's son. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on May 2, 2021 9:02:24 GMT -8
Sorry it took a while to get to this. I was out of town visiting another assembly today.One consequence I can think of would be a loss of trust. Forgiving does not necessarily mean forgetting, and at times it might be prudent to be wary.
This brings us to why God did not save David’s son. You may forgive and choose not to retaliate, but God is not bound by the same rules. He quite often allows us to experience the consequences of our actions so we might learn as well as an example to others. Absolutely no worries at all Dan, I know I usually give you a lot of trouble to ask for scriptures for this, that and the other thing. I appreciate it. Thanks for those scriptures. Yes, of course I am aware that we are to forgive whether asked for it or not but for me personally, that's a big one in bold! Also someone made a good point saying "Even God doesn't forgive us until we turn to Him and express a desire to receive His grace." What do you say to this please? Yes, I kinda figured that would be the answer why God did not save David's son.
As I said, God is not bound by the same rules. God sees our hearts. He is also imminently qualified as both counselor and judge. And while He doesn't forgive sins until we repent, He is still merciful and long-suffering. So if they want to compare themselves to God and meet His standards, tell that person I wish them luck. I have taken that view in the past. it didn't work for me either.
As I've told you, forgiveness is really more for you than the offending party. Unforgiveness and bitterness only harm you, not them. |
|
|
|
Post by mystic on May 3, 2021 2:54:59 GMT -8
I'm not really comfortable in the role of a counselor because I am not qualified. Advice we all have and most of us give that freely. But as always, just take it as advice. Well put, thanks! |
|
|
|
Post by jimmie on May 3, 2021 7:37:31 GMT -8
If God had forgiven King David for that most grievous of sins then why didn't he save the son? 2 Samuel 12:6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity. Here David pronounces his punishment for his sin. He caused the death of Uriah (one of his top champions). Now four of his household must die according to his own judgement. The four are the child, Amnon, Absalom, and Adonijah. Mark 4:24 ...with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you:... |
|
- there are 70 faces to 
