Do Messianics fast and is the Sabbath considere as fasting?

[mystic]

I am seeing this on google:

Fasting in Judaism is defined as total cessation from all food and drink. A full-day fastbegins with sunset in the evening and continues through darkness of the next day. A minor fast day begins with the dawn and concludes at darkness. 

Few minutes ago Rabbi Schneider said in his program that one can fast in different ways like:

Eliminate sweets and meats for x days
Don't watch tv for a day
Start with skip[ping one meal for a day  e.t.c

I've spoken to Christian pastors who believe Fasting is as in the above by giving up something they like for X time but not abstaining from food and water. 

What is the Messianic's beliefs and practices on Fasting and also is keeping the Sabbath a form of fasting so no other fating is required?

[alon]

Yes, we fast. However as with any ritual behavior, it only has meaning if accompanied by by an inner transformation of our character. This is true of Judaism as well, and the principle is also found in Christianity.

For most Jews, fasting does mean total abstention from food and drink. As I understand it, many will not even wash or bathe. For many Messianics, it is only a total abstention from food.

There are six fast days on the Jewish calendar, and many Messianics do keep all of them. Many others do not. They are:

3 Tishrei—the Fast of Gedaliah *
10 Tishrei—Yom Kippur
10 Tevet—Asarah B’Tevet *
13 Adar—the Fast of Esther *
17 Tammuz—Shivah Asar B’Tammuz *
9 Av—Tisha B’Av

Those marked with an asterix ( * ) are minor fasts. A full fast starts at sundown on the prescribed day and ends at the next sundown. Minor fasts start the morning of the prescribed day and end that evening at sundown.

The only absolutely observed fast day for many Messianics is Yom Kippur: Leviticus 16:29,31 (ESV) “And it shall be a statute to you forever that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict yourselves [shall fast] and shall do no work, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you. … It is a Sabbath of solemn rest to you, and you shall afflict yourselves; it is a statute forever. This is an extremely important and Torah commanded full day fast, with at least a 1/2 hr fence either end making it a 25 hr fast. Abstinence during Yom Kippur embodies the idea of teshuvah (repentance). Our denial is meant to arouse the divine attribute of forgiveness. However simple denial to the Messianic does not accomplish this. It is our heart condition which prompts this act of obedience to which God responds.

The things listed by Rabbi Schneider are ok if done as a personal fast, but not as a substitute for a biblical fast. If done as penance for sin, one would do a complete fast. Melech Dovid, for example atoned for his sin with Bath’sheva by fasting (II Samuel 2). However if you wanted to give up TV for a week as atonement for and a reminder of breaking a bad habit that would be ok.

Depending on their sect, there are other reasons Jews will fast; for example on the yahrzeit, the anniversary of the death of a family member or teacher. Again, some Messianics fast for other reasons, some do not.

Fast days are considered a Shabbat, however the weekly Shabbat is not a day for fasting. It is a day of joy before our God. As to pastors who do not believe fasting involves giving up food and water, you may have misunderstood them. They probably meant it doesn't necessarily mean we have to give up food and water. Often the case with with Christianity is they take the easiest route. Most do not have mandated fast days at all. The ones that do almost all mandate other days than what is biblically commanded. Most of those that do fast push the idea of fasting as only something akin to what Rabbi S above spoke of.

In short, as a Messianic you should absolutely keep Yom Kippur as a fast day, and put a fence around it. The rest is up to you, or your Beit Din if you have one. Or if you have a rabbi you trust you should follow his dictates concerning fasting.

[mystic]

A lot of people I know fast one day during the week and do this by not eating meat usually or giving up tv, what do you make of this please, will this get you God's favor in any way? Is there any scripture support this?

[alon]

Apr 23, 2021 4:10:10 GMT -8 mystic said:

A lot of people I know fast one day during the week and do this by not eating meat usually or giving up tv, what do you make of this please, will this get you God's favor in any way? Is there any scripture support this?

They fast from meat for perceived health reasons, not as an act of obedience or contrition. So no, they gain no favor for this act. Also, as I said, the act must create a spiritual change in you, and that starts and ends with your heart condition. That is what accrues favor with God. 

[mystic]

Got it, last question on this please. Is water considered to be food so on those biblical fast days or any day one should choose to fast from food, is it ok to drink water?

[alon]

Apr 24, 2021 4:14:37 GMT -8 mystic said:

Is water considered to be food so on those biblical fast days or any day one should choose to fast from food, is it ok to drink water?

That is a debated issue. Fasting from water would certainly be "afflicting oneself" more severely. On the other hand, it is not food and for some may cause health concerns. Since I cannot make halacha I cannot give you a definitive answer. I can say that drinking anything other than pure water (juices, pop, etc) would certainly be a violation. And I can tell you I do not fast from water myself, mostly because halacha at the synagogue I attended for about three years was not to fast from water; only from food. But that was them. Other synagogues halacha is different. 

[mystic]

Hmnn, it would be great if we could know if Christ or Moses had fasted from water too for the 40 days? My thinking is a regular human cannot survive without water for 40 days but then Christ and Moses might be a different story.

[alon]

Apr 25, 2021 3:27:00 GMT -8 mystic said:

Hmnn, it would be great if we could know if Christ or Moses had fasted from water too for the 40 days? My thinking is a regular human cannot survive without water for 40 days but then Christ and Moses might be a different story.

Moshe would have been sustained by Adonai. 

Yeshua was 100% God, and for this reason we tend to spiritualize Him. But remember He was also 100% human, with all our human frailties. The biblical account doesn't show Him being ministered to by malachim until after He'd resisted ha'shitan. That doesn't mean He wasn't sustained by  His Abba. However it can be dangerous to read too much into it. There is however a living witness to this: the land.

The place the Bible refers to as the wilderness is the western wall of the Rift from below Yerushalayim to the Dead Sea region. It is in what geographically is known as a "rain shadow." It's a meteorological phenomenon where water laden clouds from the Mediterranean release rain on the western slopes of the mountains as the air rises and cools, then stops just after it tops the rise and doesn't resume raining until it again rises on the eastern side of the Rift. There is not a lot of water in the Wilderness region. So unless He found one of the rare sources of water and stayed there He would have been pretty thirsty most of the time at least. Also what water was there was likely to have been from cisterns. This water could be foul, as it was runoff collected in the rainy season when even the Wilderness goets some rain. But it contains anything in the path of the runoff water, from feces to dead animals to plant debris to, well, let your imagination run amok and short of something ridiculous like nuclear waste you are probably correct.

So to answer your question, I really do not know if Yeshua fasted from water. But in any event, He probably did not have a lot of good water to drink during this time. Also, the possibility of its being tainted by death at a time when He was trying to remain ritually pure might suggest He did at least fast from water until and if He could find a source of fresh water. "Living water" from a spring would have been best, but my understanding is that is rare in the Israeli "Wilderness." 

Really good question. Made me think a bit.

[mystic]

When I fast on Yom Kippur, I don't have even any water for the 25-26 hours. For some or whatever reason this even though very difficult to do makes me feel better spiritually.

I think for general fasting though, I will need to ask the Holy Spirit to guide me on how and when to fast.

I think this is a really good article on fasting:

lovedandblessed.com/blog/4-reasons-why-fasting-might-not-be-helping-you-get-closer-to-god

[alon]

Found this, and it might shed some light on the topic:

Acts 9:5-6,8-9 (NASB) And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told to you what you must do.” ... Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus. And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

It would have been unthinkable for the people hosting Rav Shaul not to have offered him hospitality, including food. So it is safe to assume he was fasting by choice as he waited for the promised instructions. But notice how his fast is described, he "neither ate nor drank."

Interesting. I may have to rethink how I fast. But if anyone does this keep in mind health is the primary mitzvah. Do not jeopardize your health just for the sake of fasting as Yeshua may have and Shaul did. Drink no more than necessary, but don't risk problems if your health is poor (my advice, as health and safety are almost always the higher mitzvoth in Judaism).

[jimmie]

Jonah 3:7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:

1 Kings 13:9 For so was it charged me by the word of the LORD, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest.
1 Kings 13:8 And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place:
1 Kings 13:16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:
1 Kings 13:17 For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.

Esther 4:16 Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish

[mystic]

Thanks guys. I do believe fasting should be no water too. I have low blood sugar issues so I am hungry every 2-3 hours and never thought I would be able to make it through a 25-26 hour fast but for the last 2 years on Yom Kippur I got through it with no issues. I think it's a mindset thing and I needed to let my spirit override my flesh, thankfully for me it works. My issue is knowing when else I should fast and also what to do with my time when I'm fasting.