Daniel 9:27

[alon]

I heard an interesting take on the building of the 3rd Temple before the Antichrist comes; it doesn't have to happen:

Daniel 9:27 (ESV) And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week [Or seven], and for half of the week [Or seven] he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

After the destruction of their Temples, the Jews offered "the sacrifice of prayer." This is done daily at the Western Wall now:

Psalm 141:2 (ESV) Let my prayer be counted as incense before you,
and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice!

Psalm 107:21-22 (NKJV) Oh, that men would give thanks to the LORD for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
Let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving,
And declare His works with rejoicing.

This idea is echoed in the NT:

Romans 12:1-2 (NKJV) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Hebrews 13:15-16 "Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise - the fruit of lips that confess his name. And do not forget to do good and and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased."

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (ESV) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction [the son of perdition (a Hebrew idiom)],  who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

perdition ἀπώλεια apṓleia, ap-o'-li-a; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):—damnable(-nation), destruction, die, perdition, perish, pernicious ways, waste.
1. actively, a destroying, utter destruction: as, of vessels, Romans 9:22; τοῦ μύρου, waste, Mark 14:4 (in Matthew 26:8 without a genitive) (in Polybius 6, 59, 5 consumption, opposed to τήρησις); the putting of a man to death, Acts 25:16 Rec.; by metonymy, a destructive thing or opinion: in plural 2 Peter 2:2 Rec.; but the correct reading ἀσελγείαις was long ago adopted here.
2. passively, a perishing, ruin, destruction;

Tehillim 89:22 (OJB) The oyev (enemy) shall not ensnare him; nor the ben avlah (son of wickedness) afflict him.

wickedness עֶוֶל ʻevel, eh'-vel; or עָוֶל ʻâvel; and (feminine) עַוְלָה ʻavlâh; or עוֹלָה ʻôwlâh; or עֹלָה ʻôlâh; from H5765; (moral) evil:—iniquity, perverseness, unjust(-ly), unrighteousness(-ly); wicked(-ness).

Right now the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque sit where the Temple should. And there have been "peace talks" that give control of the entire section of the city over to Muslim authorities. Of course there would be an agreement in place that Jews would still have acess to HaKotel. 

Israeli news service Arutz Sheva reported "Muslims Attack Jews at Kotel- A pan-Muslim group Saturday charged Israeli police with “sacrilege” after Arabs stoned Jews trying to pray at the Western Wall (Kotel) on Friday." The pictures showed Muslims throwing cinder blocks down on worshipers at the Western Wall. And many Imams have been calling for violence, saying it is sacrilege for Jews to be there. And the history of every agreement with Islam concerning giving land to them in return for peace is the Muslims take the land then attack Israel from it. So it is highly likely that they will renege on any agreement to allow Jews to pray at the Kotel. If the Antichrist were to be a charismatic leader who could unite Islam, which is in the process of taking over more and more of the world, he could stand on the Temple Mount and claim it as his throne without having a new Temple built. He could cause all sacrifices (the sacrifice of prayers at the Western Wall) to cease at what is left of the Temple, and thus fulfill Daniel 9.

Something to think about. Comments?

Dan C

 

[Questor]

It may not 'have' to happen as is stated in prophecy, but there are two things...offerings of the lips are not sacrifices and grain offerings as is specified. And Prophecies are statements from G-d, not really for interpretation...however hard they are to understand.  Prophecy requires mere acceptance.  One hates to see everything taken out of it's stated context.

Daniel 9:27 (CJB)
27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”


And then, it's hard to have a holy place to sit in that is just a wall...and I don't even know that the Wailing Wall was even part of the Temple...it could well have been the support wall for the Roman Settlement, which Temple Mount fits the size needed for.  I know everyone has made the wall 'holy' by their actions, but it's just a wall.  

   
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (CJB)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from has been revealed, the one destined for doom.
4 He will oppose himself to everything that people call a god or make an object of worship; he will put himself above them all, so that he will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim that he himself is God.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (YLT)

3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because--if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed--the son of the destruction,

4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the Sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God--the day doth not come.



Just so hard to fit a Sanctuary on a wall.   

[alon]

Jun 10, 2020 10:48:19 GMT -8 Questor said:

It may not 'have' to happen as is stated in prophecy, but there are two things...offerings of the lips are not sacrifices and grain offerings as is specified. And Prophecies are statements from G-d, not really for interpretation...however hard they are to understand.  Prophecy requires mere acceptance.  One hates to see everything taken out of it's stated context.

Daniel 9:27 (CJB)
27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”


And then, it's hard to have a holy place to sit in that is just a wall...and I don't even know that the Wailing Wall was even part of the Temple...it could well have been the support wall for the Roman Settlement, which Temple Mount fits the size needed for.  I know everyone has made the wall 'holy' by their actions, but it's just a wall.  

   
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (CJB)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from has been revealed, the one destined for doom.
4 He will oppose himself to everything that people call a god or make an object of worship; he will put himself above them all, so that he will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim that he himself is God.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (YLT)

3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because--if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed--the son of the destruction,

4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the Sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God--the day doth not come.



Just so hard to fit a Sanctuary on a wall.    wwn1hc

Actually I gave scriptural references where prayers are considered as sacrifices. So there is a good argument that since we can no longer make regular sacrifices as commanded our prayers are a substitute. And the times of prayer coincide with the times the daily sacrifices were made. So there is definitely a possibility here.

As to having a sanctuary and a place to sit, besides the Dome of the Rock there is also the Al Aqsa Mosque which sits on the Temple Mount within the precincts of the Temple complex. So again, a distinct possibility that Yeshua could return, fulfilling prophecy before the 3rd Temple is rebuilt. Not saying I absolutely believe this. But it is an interesting theory.

Dan C

[jimmie]

Jun 10, 2020 14:23:57 GMT -8 alon said:

Jun 10, 2020 10:48:19 GMT -8 Questor said:

As to having a sanctuary and a place to sit, besides the Dome of the Rock there is also the Al Aqsa Mosque which sits on the Temple Mount within the precincts of the Temple complex. So again, a distinct possibility that Yeshua could return, fulfilling prophecy before the 3rd Temple is rebuilt. Not saying I absolutely believe this. But it is an interesting theory.

Dan C

[/font][/quote]

What is called the Temple Mount today is actually Fort Antonio Mount. According to Jesus the temple would be totally destroyed. There are still stones upon one another in the whaling wall.

Luke 21: 5And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, 6As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The temple site is the Gihon Spring. There is no structure left there.

[alon]

Jun 12, 2020 13:20:21 GMT -8 jimmie said:

[/font][/quote]

What is called the Temple Mount today is actually Fort Antonio Mount. According to Jesus the temple would be totally destroyed. There are still stones upon one another in the whaling wall.

Luke 21: 5And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, 6As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The temple site is the Gihon Spring. There is no structure left there.

[/quote]

I've heard some of the arguments for this, and am not convinced yet. If you have some maps and supporting arguments, I'd like to look at them, just for my own curiosity. As for the Kotel, it is a foundation wall for the Temple complex. It was not part of the Temple itself. And some of those lower stones are massive, so soldiers looking for gold couldn't have moved them anyhow. The Temple itself was destroyed just as Yeshua prophesied. Since the fire melted the gold gilding and it ran down the cracks where stones joined, every stone was removed and scraped to get the gold. Not one stone stood upon another.

Dan C

[jimmie]

Ever heard of the Coral Castle? Built and relocated by one man. If I remember correctly the largest stone was 20 tons. I think a few thousand Romans with the right motivation could break up the foundation. Gold may have been a motivation as you say. But their real intent was to erase anything Jewish. This was the worst Roman victory ever and they were out for total revenge.

Anyway while researching the Gihon Spring because of its' unique flow pattern, I ran across this article beginningandend.com/secret-of-the-lost-temple-the-real-location-of-solomons-temple-revealed/ it seems to contain most of the reasons for me believing that The Gihon Spring is the location of the temple.

[alon]

Jun 12, 2020 14:05:36 GMT -8 jimmie said:

Ever heard of the Coral Castle? Built and relocated by one man. If I remember correctly the largest stone was 20 tons. I think a few thousand Romans with the right motivation could break up the foundation. Gold may have been a motivation as you say. But their real intent was to erase anything Jewish. This was the worst Roman victory ever and they were out for total revenge.

Anyway while researching the Gihon Spring because of its' unique flow pattern, I ran across this article beginningandend.com/secret-of-the-lost-temple-the-real-location-of-solomons-temple-revealed/ it seems to contain most of the reasons for me believing that The Gihon Spring is the location of the temple.

Thanks. I'll read that tomorrow when I am (hopefully) rested. Little or no sleep last few days (health issues). But I do want to see it.

Got my Talmud on CD today too, but I'm not even going to try that until I get some sleep! But I'm thinking that's not "work" to play arround with it tomorrow and see how the search part works. Same with reading about the Temple.

Dan C

[alon]

Jun 12, 2020 14:05:36 GMT -8 jimmie said:

Anyway while researching the Gihon Spring because of its' unique flow pattern, I ran across this article beginningandend.com/secret-of-the-lost-temple-the-real-location-of-solomons-temple-revealed/ it seems to contain most of the reasons for me believing that The Gihon Spring is the location of the temple.

Interesting artical. He makes some errors, holdovers of Christian tradition. For example, he blames the ""Pharisees" for handing Yeshua over to the Romans for execution. In actuality it was the Sadducee leadership. But despite this he makes some compelling arguments for the alternate location. I'm still not convinced, mostly because getting at the truth would require a lot of research which I don't have time for right now. But it is something to file in the "maybe" column in my mind. Anyhow, thanks. 

Dan C