Dogs

[alon]

Proverbs 26:11 Like a dog that returns to its vomit Is a fool who repeats his folly.

Dogs in the Bible are compared to swine, many times are consigned to eat human flesh or lap up the blood of bad guys, and are generally portrayed in less than favorable light. But I love dogs, and they love me. I've worked with dogs and almost always had at least one dog as a pet. Nothing helped a bad day at work like my dogs when they met me at the door! And generally, I find anyone who doesn't like dogs or who dogs generally don't like cannot be trusted. So why all the bad biblical press for dogs?

I mean, I know it's probably cultural. But God chose the culture, so ...

It's late; I'm tired; just wonderin', what do ya'll think?

Dan C

[Elizabeth]

I don't know for sure, but I always kind of assumed they didn't have dogs for pets so it was a comparison they could understand based on the role of dogs in their society.

I don't think He has any disdain for dogs just because their dogs. They're just dirty and selfish with no limits when left to themselves, but He also says so are we. Beyond that, when dogs are not "socialized" properly but are a part of society, they become social problems. Dogs have done so much to benefit mankind when we exercise dominion positively that I think it's one of those situations where it's just really clear that we get back what we give in some ways. I just think these comparisons He is making are based on dogs at their worst in relation to us.

The first unscripted heartfelt prayer I prayed and G-d answered for me was about a dog. When I was unconcerned with G-dly things, I also didn't want anything to do with dogs. I didn't want to deal with taking care of them, I was somewhat afraid of them, and I didn't want to get close to something I would have to deal with dying. When I started repenting one of the surprising things I noticed was a true softening of my heart and regard for animals and nature that I had when I was a child, which was strange because I was pretty pro-environment all my life. But G-d has a real unselfishness about His affinity for creation that I just didn't have without Him, and I don't believe that regard can fully come into our hearts without Him. The closest I've heard is always dehumanizing people's place and perverts things. There's just a boundary crossed.

Anyway, I think He kind of pointed me back to that prayer with whatever was happening in my heart toward dogs because I had lost something about myself in relationship to Him thst was somehow evident in my relationship with animals, nature, and the environment. The irony was, I was really concerned with the environment, but it wasn't right because it was based on fear and self. As my regard for creation became more in tuned with His, I was suddenly and otherwise inexplicably wanting a dog like a little kid. So it was the kids and I against my husband.

Among other things, I was praying my husband would let us get a dog, and I don't believe that was silly. I was just going back in a way between Him and I to when He had His rightful place in my life and I had a more pure regard for life. It was also somehow unifying for the kids and I, and ultimately the family. That really was a prayer answered because no one would have been able to talk my husband into getting a dog, and now we have two. They have really done a lot for us as a family just by being dogs. It's pretty amazing in how simple it is. They also bring up things like caring and doing when you don't feel like it that's hard to teach naturally and regularly. We are just happier and more unified because of those dogs so G-d used them to benefit us I know. I also noticed a harshness toward my dogs when I was dealing with demonic attack, and a softening as I worked through it.

In my experience, the more joy I have for G-d's creation and the good in it, the more close I am to Him. For some reason, there's been a thread played out between Him and I in which He used dogs. All that's to say that I know He sees good in dogs and delights in them, but they're still animals. They have their own place, but it's a good place when we are doing our job well. I think there's just a role we play generally in life that we can see really well with dogs. We can bring out the best or worst in anything He gives us, but it seems really clear when you consider the difference between the pack of scavengers He refers to in these verses and the companion, therapy, watch, or rescue dogs we think of when we think of dogs. They've literally saved lives so He knows there's more to them than what He described in these verses as He made them that way.

[alon]

Wow, that' was pretty good! And yes, how we treat our pets is a direct reflection of what is in our hearts. Especially with dogs. 

But I look at cultures like the Europeans who raise sheep. They have dogs to help control the flock and to protect it from predators. They were not only a great early warning system, but would often stand their ground between the herd and danger even at the cost of their lives. It just seems odd that we never hear of this with the Jewish shepherds. Moreover the role of a shepherd was not like we tend to view it a lowly position. To the Jews, great leaders and even kings were forged in this position. There is a lot to taking care of a bunch of sheep, and I mean a LOT! I've talked with shepherds and it is everything a cattleman has to know and do times about three! But a dog would have taught caring for another animal at the same time, learning to balance the needs of the two. And it would have taught how to train and use the animal to the limits of its abilities. It would have taught how to delegate. It just surprises me that instead of caring for these animals as you indicated and using them that they were so despised. 

They were obviously domesticated because we see them in the cities, like when they were there to (if I recall right) lick Jezebel's blood when she died (fell from a window?). Hang on; I better look that up ... OK, close, but according to my Duck Duck Go search "Jezebel met a gruesome death—thrown out of a window by members of her own court retinue, and the flesh of her corpse eaten by stray dogs." But the term "stray dogs" does indicate they were at one time domesticated. That brings up the question, what was the dogs role in Hebrew society?

Dan (just curious) C

[alon]

A quick search found that dogs were domesticated by all the pagan cultures around the Jews long before even Avraham. Canine teeth were found in Jericho at the earliest levels of the town's existence. They were used as both pets and as working dogs by the Egyptians during and before the 400 yrs of enslavement there. So the Hebrews knew about dogs and probably some intimately knew how to train them, since all slaves would not have been put to work building pyramids. A few were pulled aside for special duties, and in Ex 12 we are told they left Egypt with "flocks and herds." So some of them would have been cattlemen and shepherds. But no dog handlers. DOgs do show up from time to time as domesticated animals in Jewish society. But always they are a bad example or metaphor. It isn't until Yeshua's time we see any evidence they were even allowed into Jewish homes:

Mark 7:28 (ESV) But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the children's crumbs.”

Dogs here are still cast in their traditional Hebrew role as scavengers, but they were allowed in the house to be under the table to pick up scraps. 

The Hebrew word for 'dog' is כָּלֵב kalev, or Caleb. This was the name of one of the two spies who brought back a good report from the promised land. So if dogs are so low in Jewish society, why name a son Kalev? And why was this son one of only 2 of 12 who were righteous and true to their calling, saying with their God on their side the Hebrews could take on these giants? 

Several places I looked said the dog was the totem of Caleb's clan:

w3.chabad.org/media/images/1026/EqIE10269710.jpg

Exodus 20:4-5a (ESV) “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.  You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, ...

The link above should get you to a picture of a fresco posted by chabad.org. That scripture reference is the second of the Ten Commandments, and that fresco violates it in every way. 

Chabad is an Ultra Orthodox Jewish organization, and the Ultra Orthodox are steeped in Zohar and Kabala, which is Jewish mysticism. I recognize that fresco as one found in a synagogue dating to somewhere around the 3rd to 5th cen CE. The figure in the middle is God, His throne depicted as a chariot. The animals around it are the 12 totems of the 12 tribes of Israel. And there are several things wrong here. First off is in most of Judasim, and all of early Judaism depictions of God were forbidden. But Jewish Throne Room Theology was obsessed with it, to the point they ignored the commandment and made several depictions of God on His throne, usually as a chariot pulled by 4 horses, but sometimes as with wheels facing the 4 cardinal directions. Interestingly (as an aside) that couldn't have happened in early Judaism as they didn't use those directions, which we take for granted. Instead they would indicate direction by saying something like "towards the sea (Mediterranean), or "go up" (as in going up to Jerusalem). 

Another violation of this commandment is those 12 animals surrounding the image of the Throne of God. Those are totems representing the 12 tribes. Totemism is the assigning of an animal to represent a family, tribe, or people. That animal is revered and worshiped, making it a lower god. Worship and reverence in Judaism was reserved for only One God, El Elohe Yisroel. Totemism was a form of pagan worship. The similarity to Astrology is glaringly evident. So I would seriously doubt that Caleb or his clan ever worshiped a dog, nor did they use a dog to represent them. Why he would be named for such a lowly (in Hebrew eyes) creature is yet a mystery to me. But I cannot see any early Hebrew, let alone one as righteous as Caleb worshiping a dog.

Dan (never know where these searches will take you) C

[jimmie]

I have a deep seated hatred/fear for/of dogs rooted in childhood abuse suffered at the hands of my mother’s pimp. Even so I can see positive mentions of dog’s in scripture:

Judges 7:5 So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink.
Psalms 68:23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same.
Ecclesiastes 9:4 |For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Matthew 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mark 7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Then there is Caleb, the Hebrew work for dog and also carries the meaning of loyalty. Caleb was a mighty warrior and very loyal to his God. Something worthy of admiration.

[alon]

Jul 17, 2019 11:54:25 GMT -8 jimmie said:

I have a deep seated hatred/fear for/of dogs rooted in childhood abuse suffered at the hands of my mother’s pimp. Even so I can see positive mentions of dog’s in scripture:

Judges 7:5 So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink.
Psalms 68:23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same.
Ecclesiastes 9:4 |For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Matthew 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mark 7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Then there is Caleb, the Hebrew work for dog and also carries the meaning of loyalty. Caleb was a mighty warrior and very loyal to his God. Something worthy of admiration.

Not sure the Psalm 68 reference is a good one, as dogs lapping their blood seems to be a biblical insult. And the Ecclesiastics reference demeans dogs, as it's saying better a live lowlife than a dead king. But the Judges and Luke references are good ones. I had forgotten about the dogs licking the poor mans sores. It seems to be a reference to how low his station in life really was. But if they were that tame I can imagine they were a comfort just being there if they let him hold or pet them. Not sure how he felt about them licking his sores, but dogs can be great companions. The reference to the dogs characteristic of loyalty I hadn't thought of or found yet. I can see how that would apply to Caleb. Thanks!

Dan (learnin' sumpin' new here ever' day) C

[jimmie]

Psalm 68 the righteous is delivering an insult to the ungodly.

Job used dogs to tend his flocks and preferred them over some men:

Job 30:1 But now they that are younger than I have me in derision, whose fathers I would have disdained to have set with the dogs of my flock.

[Elizabeth]

Jul 17, 2019 11:54:25 GMT -8 jimmie said:

I have a deep seated hatred/fear for/of dogs rooted in childhood abuse suffered at the hands of my mother’s pimp. Even so I can see positive mentions of dog’s in scripture:

Judges 7:5 So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink.
Psalms 68:23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same.
Ecclesiastes 9:4 |For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Matthew 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mark 7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Then there is Caleb, the Hebrew work for dog and also carries the meaning of loyalty. Caleb was a mighty warrior and very loyal to his God. Something worthy of admiration.

Thanks for the references and insights to you both. More to think about on the subject than i had realized.

I had wondered if there was a connection between the Hebrew word for dog and the name Caleb. I thought maybe I was just hearing it wrong, and was almost afraid to give myself permission to consider it because it did seem derogatory.

Sorry and shocked to hear of so much trauma for you and your mom Jimmy. I didnt want to mention it because i didn't want to come across as prying, but I just don't feel comfortable not acknowledging it either. Now I just know you've been through a lot more than I realized or can understand.

[jimmie]

Elizabeth,
I was very young, so my older brothers and sisters caught most of the abuse. That chapter of my life came to swift end when my dad, who was gone a lot working and tending to his other wife and children, came home and discovered what was going on by a chance meeting with one mom’s customers. My dad broke one of the man’s arms to get the information he wanted then went and shot the pimp (not mortally). I wonder if those dogs dipped their tongues in the pimp’s blood. Never even considered that possibility until now. Dad was tried but acquitted of any wrong doing. He divorced my mom and got custody of us children. I saw my mother six times after that, if you count her funeral. Ps 27:10 When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.

[Elizabeth]

Well I'm glad your with Yeshua, and I hope the best for your family. I'm also glad that you're there for encouragement as an overcomer for others who have endured so much.