Yochanah
Junior Member
Yochanah...Yah Enables
Posts: 99
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Post by Yochanah on Jun 24, 2004 13:47:19 GMT -8
Amein, I know they will as it is so written... And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. Zech. 14:16 I too beleive this! I firmly beleive that the wedding feast of Yeshua, the Bridegroom, to His bride, the congregation of followers, (who keep the commands of Elohim and the faith of Yeshua haMachiach, Rev. 14:12) will take place on the last Shabbat of the Feast of Tabernacles. What year is not yet clear but He promised to make the day known to His saints and it is fulfilled. I referred to the events of the past which have been fulfilled and not repeated, not those of the future which these things still point to such as the moedim.  |
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Sam
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by Sam on Apr 7, 2005 21:54:12 GMT -8
Would someone tell me when the Shabbats are during Hag HaMatzah (Unleavened Bread)? Is it the whole week or just the first and the last day? It's probably a little late but I should give my boss a little warning especially if it is for a whole week.
How does Pesach fit in here since it is also a Shabbat?
What day is Pesach this year? 24 April?
Shalom
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 7, 2005 22:56:27 GMT -8
Shalom brother,
The first and last day of Hag HaMatzah (Festival of Unleavened Bread) is a Shabbat.
I can see that you have rendered the date of Pesach the same as I. It does fall on a Shabbat (14th of Nisan). In Rabbinic Judaism they celebrate Pesach one day later on the 15th of Nisan. A careful study of the Gospels reveals that Yeshua and His disciples celebrated one day before the "Rabbinic Judaism" of His time. Rabbinic Judaism and even many in Messianic Judaism lump Pesach with the first day of Unleavened bread. This in my estimation is a clear error. All one needs to do is take a look at Vayikra (Lev.) 23:4-7...
"'These are the set feasts of YHVH, even holy convocations, which you shall proclaim in their appointed season.
In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, is YHVH's Pesach.
On the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of matzah to YHVH. Seven days you shall eat matzah.
In the first day you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no regular work.
But you shall offer an offering made by fire to YHVH seven days. In the seventh day is a holy convocation: you shall do no regular work.'"
Clearly they are two different days, but many insist on celebrating both Pesach and the first day of Unleavened Bread not only on the same day, but on the 15th of Nisan! This actually has been a couple thousand year debate in Judaism as not all the sects of Judaism celebrated Pesach on the same day. Obviously Yeshua did not.
I hope more discuss on this thread as there are very many interesting insights to share.
Shalom chaverim,
Reuel
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Sam
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by Sam on Apr 19, 2005 19:32:57 GMT -8
What kinds of bitter herbs are used during the pesach seder? How are they eaten? What do they represent? The bitterness of slavery in Egypt?
What about the lamb? I know most people don't eat it because there is no Temple to sacrifice it at, but isn't there a part of the lamb that is can be eaten if there is no sacrifice? The shank or something? I believe I read this somewhere but I can't find it in the online Bible I'm using. It might be a part of the 2nd Pesach for the people who were unlean during the first. Thanks.
Shalom
Sam
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 19, 2005 21:16:55 GMT -8
The bitter herbs are called "Mazor" and is usually represented by the horseradish (xtra hot is preferable  ) The bitter herbs are eaten with the matzah which is broken into smaller pieces usually eaten and distributed with the charoseth. The bitter herbs symbolize the bitterness of slavery and bondage of Israel and our past lives as we were in bondage to sin. There are several traditions regarding this. Some use a lamb shank bone, some have something other than lamb, and some don't have either meat or a shank bone, but stay clear from implications of sacrificing any animal during this time as it is connection to Pesach and this would be a violation of  .... "You shall say to them, 'Any man there is of the house of Yisra'el, or of the strangers who live as foreigners among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice, and doesn't bring it to the door of the Tent of Meeting, to sacrifice it to the LORD; that man shall be cut off from his people."- Vayikra (Lev.) 17:8-9 I have recently found something interesting about what I now believe is the actual day of Pesach. Anyone can find this as well. What I have found is that sometimes the traditional Jewish calendar is sometimes not completely accurate. All one has to do is find out when the last new moon was and count fourteen days. According to , this is the day of Pesach. Can anybody here solve the puzzle to arrive at the correct day of Passover? In regards to a great free online Messianic Siddur featuring a Pesach sedar and haggada, click on the following link: www.heartofisrael.org/pubs/Siddur.pdfShalom chaverim, Reuel |
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Post by Rick on Apr 19, 2005 21:54:32 GMT -8
If I remember correctly, the Jewish calendar originally would determine the whole year from the confirmed new moon in Jerusalem at the time that the barley was "aviv". This had to be determined every year in order to set the feast days. I believe sometime in the middle ages a Rabi, (can't recall the name at the moment) came up with a formula that aproximated this, (kind of an average), that would enable Jews regardless of their location during dispersion to celebrate a given holiday on the same day.
As far as I know this has not changed aside from "leap" adjustments.
It would be resonable to assume that since many are "in the land" now that they would return to the traditional way of determining the "times and seasons". Which raises my curiosity, does anyone else know if they have returned to this practice?
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Sam
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by Sam on Apr 20, 2005 15:06:16 GMT -8
8th of April. Last full moon was 25 March the next full moon is 24 April.  I don't think they've really done anything yet except talk. I couldn't find anything on them making any rulings. Here's an article on Pesach from First Fruits. Not a Haggadah but some good info. ffoz.org/downloads/Prepare4Passover.pdf Shalom, Sam |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Apr 21, 2005 5:28:15 GMT -8
Keep in mind that we are to look for the new moon, and not the full moon. According the Farmer's Almanac, the first sliver of the new moon occurred on April 11th. Counting forward 14 days, we arrive at 25 April as the appointed time for Pesach.
Well, since the Sanhedrin has been re-established, it's only a matter of time before they have the capability to determine the moedim again.
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Sam
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by Sam on Apr 21, 2005 11:48:20 GMT -8
Thanks I thought that the new moon was the full moon. I don't know why but I've thought that for a long time.
Shalom
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 23, 2005 11:51:51 GMT -8
That is odd. My farmer's almanac says it was the 8th of April. This is also confirmed on a secular calendar that I have. Making it fall on the evening of the 21st...Thursday evening. Yes, I am looking at in now and the Farmers Almanac for April 2005 says that the new moon fell on the 8th day of April. Are you sure that your almanac is the 2005 addition?
In regards to the aviv barley concept for Pesach...it has too many holes in it for me to observe it this way. This is something we should open a serperate thread to discuss.
Shalom chaverim,
Reuel
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Apr 24, 2005 7:24:36 GMT -8
No, you're right. The New Moon occured on the 8th. However, we know that the New Moon has to be determined by the first sighting, ie....it has to be visible. Here's the link to where I checked it out: Farmer's AlmanacAgreed. |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Apr 24, 2005 13:22:17 GMT -8
What about when it is overcast for several days? Ah yes, this is debatable subject. We should start a new thread on the new moon. I think that it will be good. Shalom chaver, Reuel |
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Post by Rick on Apr 24, 2005 17:09:24 GMT -8
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