|
|
Post by mystic on Mar 28, 2019 3:29:05 GMT -8
This should be a good one. The kids mom is in a church Choir and practices just after 6am while she's in the shower then in her room before leaving for work. Of course this keeps me awake [don;t know about the others] and I am wondering if it would be right for me to mention this to her?
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Mar 28, 2019 10:15:54 GMT -8
At least it isn't grunge or heavy metal ... I guess my first question is why are you still in bed at 6:00 AM? Proverbs 6:9a,b (KJV) How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise ...City folk ...  But seriously, if it's a real problem, talk to her. Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by mystic on Mar 29, 2019 2:37:57 GMT -8
At least it isn't grunge or heavy metal ... I guess my first question is why are you still in bed at 6:00 AM? Proverbs 6:9a,b (KJV) How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise ...City folk ... But seriously, if it's a real problem, talk to her. Dan C Yes I will. To answer your question, I don;t get much sleep in this house or to be more accurate I don;t get much continuous sleep. This is due to the many people in this multi-apartment building. All through the night someone walking or doing whatever upstairs will keep me awake, same with those in the basement or my older son who comes home usually between 2-5am or my mom, younger son and the kids mom going to the kitchen or bathroom at any given time between midnight and dawn. Seems my deepest 30 minutes to one hour of sleep comes between 5.30-6.30am for some reason. Yes Dan, living here in the heart of NYC in itself is not the best situation where sleep is concerned but waiting for the day God will answer my prayer to find the sanctuary I am seeking. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Mar 29, 2019 3:22:53 GMT -8
Yes I will. To answer your question, I don;t get much sleep in this house or to be more accurate I don;t get much continuous sleep. This is due to the many people in this multi-apartment building. All through the night someone walking or doing whatever upstairs will keep me awake, same with those in the basement or my older son who comes home usually between 2-5am or my mom, younger son and the kids mom going to the kitchen or bathroom at any given time between midnight and dawn. Seems my deepest 30 minutes to one hour of sleep comes between 5.30-6.30am for some reason. Yes Dan, living here in the heart of NYC in itself is not the best situation where sleep is concerned but waiting for the day God will answer my prayer to find the sanctuary I am seeking. Then I'd definitely talk to her. Sleep deprivation is no fun. I am often kept awake by medical problems, so I know how bad it can be. I can't imagine living in NYC. But most people I've known from there were in the service, and they couldn't wait to get back! But I pray you will be able to get out and find something better for yourself. Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by mystic on Mar 29, 2019 9:27:56 GMT -8
Dan, you don't know the half of what I go through here and since I also have to deal with situations here every whenever it comes which will test my faith, getting sleep will always be an issue.
For example, latest incident came yesterday. The tenants upstairs are a mom and daughter both asthmatic who had responded to the ad when the last tenants left. I was told that they living in a bad area and are suffering in a basement having to deal with a lot of Pot smoke from the other people in the house. Feeling sorry for people as I normally do, I chose to select them from the many applicants.
I had discussed in great detail all of the many problems we had in the past with tenants and told them we do not want these problems. the mom had told me "my word is my bond", "we are drama free", "it's never about finance" and regarding visitors she will have "only her grandkids visiting for one week, two tops every now and then". So I chose them based on her vows and agreement.
After the first 3 months they started being late with the rent, feeling sorry for them we gave them 8 days grace period. then one day out of the blue, the mom called me from her job frantic "telling" me to go upstairs as her daughter can't breathe. I went up, daughter asked me to perform Heimlich which I had never done but i did, paramedics came and she was ok, thank God.
I had also told them we will not be collecting mail here for anyone who doesn't live here but since the last few months mail started coming here to her son and grandson. Feeling sorry for this single mom I did not send back the mail thinking she is trying to help her family in some way.
Then since January, son and grandson came to "visit" but are still here. Last week I asked about if she has more people living here now to which she replied the son, girlfriend and child will be "staying temporarily". I reminded her of our agreement then she said they would be leaving this week.
Yesterday while she and daughter was at work a fight broke out upstairs between her son and girlfriend. I hesitated from calling the cops mainly because I figure since they have a baby Social Services might get involved and son might get arrested. i asked her exactly which day the visitors will be leaving and she said "on the weekend" so we'll see. I had told her if this happens again while they are still here this time i will not hesitate to call the cops immediately.
Just a short while ago, I went into my garage and coming back out saw out of the corner of my eye son and girlfriend standing quietly on the stairs, i am still so mad I simply could not look at them. Since the incident yesterday I have been praying asking God to take the anger from me and help me forgive but so far the anger is still there, it comes and goes.
I realize that time and time again trying to help these people is only getting us into worse and worse situations but as you can see I am being tested with the "love thy neighbor as thyself" commandment. So do I keep trying to help these people who are clearly taking advantage of our kindness time and time again? Or would God forgive me should we evict? I know Jesus said seventy times seven but even him had his breaking point as was shown a few times in the bible.
At any rate, I can expect not to get a peaceful nights rest until this settles down or their visitors do leave this w/e as they have stated.
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Mar 29, 2019 11:26:10 GMT -8
... I realize that time and time again trying to help these people is only getting us into worse and worse situations but as you can see I am being tested with the "love thy neighbor as thyself" commandment. So do I keep trying to help these people who are clearly taking advantage of our kindness time and time again? Or would God forgive me should we evict? I know Jesus said seventy times seven but even him had his breaking point as was shown a few times in the bible. At any rate, I can expect not to get a peaceful nights rest until this settles down or their visitors do leave this w/e as they have stated. This is another case of Christians misreading scripture and teaching us false theologies. The "70 X 7" reference was only for those who truly repent, not for those who only wish to take advantage of you. Nowhere are we commanded to be dishwrags being wrung out by those with no  and no honor. And in Jewish thought of the time that was written, "thy neighbor" meant those of your own sect and community. "Love thy neighbor" did not mean just allow someone to move in and take advantage of you, ruining your life. It sounds to me like the real problem is not your ex singing in the shower, but these people and possibly more like them taking advantage of you. So with this extra information, I'd say ask her to quit singing until you get control of the situation, then immediately start the eviction process for those tenants. One you want her to see you are working on it, and two with people like that, the more they walk on you and get by with it the more egregious their offenses will become. Eviction usually usually takes time, so don't delay. At the very least when they see you are serious and not going to take it any more you may have some more compliant tenants. Best case is you can get rid of them and get some better tenants in. Another thing is you want them out before winter. We used to rent, and had similar problems. I don't know about NY, but I can't believe your laws are any better. But here you couldn't evict in winter. But you can start the process any time, so come spring thaw I wanted them out! Then hopefully by the time people were moving more I'd have the inevitable damage repaired and be ready to rent again. And one other piece of advice: never let them intimidate you or give you a sob story and get their deposit back if there is damage. If they wanted their money back, they should have left the apartment i the same shape as when they moved in. In my experience the repairs always cost way more than the deposit, and if they knew I was going to get rid of them there was usually a couple months rent and uunpaid utilities (which are billed against the property, not the resident here). So that deposit never covered my costs. Oh, and always ask for and check references when interviewing prospective tenants. Anyhow, my prayers are with you. But that and the advice are about all I can do. The rest is up to you. Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by mystic on Mar 30, 2019 3:59:21 GMT -8
This is another case of Christians misreading scripture and teaching us false theologies. The "70 X 7" reference was only for those who truly repent, not for those who only wish to take advantage of you. Nowhere are we commanded to be dishwrags being wrung out by those with no and no honor. And in Jewish thought of the time that was written, "thy neighbor" meant those of your own sect and community. "Love thy neighbor" did not mean just allow someone to move in and take advantage of you, ruining your life. It sounds to me like the real problem is not your ex singing in the shower, but these people and possibly more like them taking advantage of you. So with this extra information, I'd say ask her to quit singing until you get control of the situation, then immediately start the eviction process for those tenants. One you want her to see you are working on it, and two with people like that, the more they walk on you and get by with it the more egregious their offenses will become. Eviction usually usually takes time, so don't delay. At the very least when they see you are serious and not going to take it any more you may have some more compliant tenants. Best case is you can get rid of them and get some better tenants in. Another thing is you want them out before winter. We used to rent, and had similar problems. I don't know about NY, but I can't believe your laws are any better. But here you couldn't evict in winter. But you can start the process any time, so come spring thaw I wanted them out! Then hopefully by the time people were moving more I'd have the inevitable damage repaired and be ready to rent again. And one other piece of advice: never let them intimidate you or give you a sob story and get their deposit back if there is damage. If they wanted their money back, they should have left the apartment i the same shape as when they moved in. In my experience the repairs always cost way more than the deposit, and if they knew I was going to get rid of them there was usually a couple months rent and uunpaid utilities (which are billed against the property, not the resident here). So that deposit never covered my costs. Oh, and always ask for and check references when interviewing prospective tenants. Anyhow, my prayers are with you. But that and the advice are about all I can do. The rest is up to you. Dan C Thanks for all the great advice on the tenants, I will handle it. The physical fighting is not something we are accustomed to and that experience wreaked havoc on my nerves. After the tragic experiences I had endured with my Autistic son for the year and a half, my nerves were shot. Since then I have been praying every day for God to renew my strength like the eagle's and to restore my nerves but when this was happening I swear I thought I was getting a heart attack so no, now I know my nerves hasn't been strengthened after all. What I highlighted in bold above, I had always thought that yes, we are to take whatever strife is handed to us in order to obey Jesus's words but Jesus did say to rebuke but not commit sin. I just found these scriptures on avoiding strife Proverbs 20:3 ,“It is to one’s honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel”. Proverbs 6:16–19 leaves no doubt about God’s view: “There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers”Ok so let's examine the above in bold please. Is it that person who spreads strife an abomination or what the person does? The latter would be my guess. So what does any scriptures say to the one who is on the receiving end of that strife, to avoid strife but how? My thinking is to get rid of or avoid the cause of the strife, this is where the issue of loving thy neighbor comes in. So do we severe ties with that person or try to avoid that person? |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Mar 30, 2019 5:26:32 GMT -8
God may be waiting for you to do your part and deal with this problem. He is not a gini who grants our wishes, but a careing God who wants us to grow stronger. Simply zaping our nerves might calm us, but it would also weaken rather than strengthen us. If they are fighting, or if you ask them something reasonable like keeping down the noise and they grow beligerant, then call the police. They have the authority and the resources to deal with it. You may find yourself in over your head, so it might be foolish for you to rush in and escalate the situation. Ask yourself who it is spreading the strife? If you ignore the situation do you really believe it will get any better? If you refuse to deal with these tenants they will probably just get worse, not beter. And your refusal to act will be at least partly to blame for the continuing strife. And that strife effects others there besides you. You can't ask them to be quiet if you are not willing to deal with the real problem. Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Mar 30, 2019 5:32:34 GMT -8
If it's not good for your kids, get it out of your life. If it is inviting evil into your home and your family's peace is compromised, don't let it in. This is a line we need to learn in our culture really firmly I think for people to start prioritizing rightly and respond more wisely to exploitation of people's goodwill. Do unto others does not mean sacrifice the wellbeing of your kids and family so that evil can abound. I'm sorry to hear they have a baby, I think maybe you have an obligation to call the authorities there.
|
|
|
|
Post by mystic on Mar 30, 2019 6:18:30 GMT -8
Sorry I did not give all details before. The mom and daughter themselves are good tenants, they are very quiet people by nature. It's the visitors, the son and his girlfriend who did the fighting and who should be leaving either today or tomorrow so the fighting will not be an issue any more.
So that leaves the future of these tenants, that's the decision. My older son had planned on taking that apartment for himself, we have been waiting on him to finish with his student loans but it's still a ways away.
The cause of the strife is the mom any way we look at this, we understand she is away from her kids and needs them to visit and we cannot legally prevent them from having visitors so only option is for them not to live here.
I still would like to settle this issue mentioned once for all please for anyone in my circles, friends, relatives or strangers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Mar 30, 2019 7:22:11 GMT -8
In a previous post, you said they're not paying rent so not sure that qualifies as good tenant although I agree there are circumstances we can't know. At any rate, it's a red flag she struggles to manage life.
We can't tell you what to do as we don't have firsthand knowledge or imput from the situation and it's your responsibility. (Meanwhile, I went on to tell you what I would do.....but as you show what I know is limited. I'm also bringing in bias based on my own life experience that I can't help but bring into the conversation. I'm bringing it anyway because I'm worried for the baby's sake.)
I will say I think you struggle with drawing lines with right and wrong, good and bad. I do too, but I'm getting better about it. There are times you have to sever ties with people, but it should be clear to them why you're doing it otherwise it's not fair and your contributing to the confusion and lack of control. That's where I am most challenged personally because I have to be assertive, but it's only fair to be clear to them and give them a chance to look at things from a hopefully helpful perspective.
Also, it seems the grandmother may be unintentionally even manipulating you with this "quietness". She seems like someone who may have issues with drawing lines similar but more pronounced to you and I so her way of "acting" is then passive. If so, you're never going to really know what she's up to because she doesn't. I would consider that she may feel like she has no choice or control in the situation, and so then whatever agreements or understandings you make with her won't mean much long term. In other words, I think she may feel she has no power or say-so in this situation. That means you have to be that much more in control of the situation because she isn't. Without some sense of control it seems to me this situation will get out of hand because all involved are letting the evil continue to get its way.
Based on what I've heard, I would call the cops next time as Alon suggested because someone will get hurt and is already hurt even if not physically. Basically, someone needs to get control of the situation and it seems the police may be the only choice. As scary as the what-ifs are for the baby, the right-nows are also scary but they're also real. Evil has a way of making us feel trapped by the what-ifs while letting the right-now go too far. Hopefully the grandmother is empowered enough by the help they should get from the police to become a source of stability and control, and then gets custody while the kids get mental health help or are removed from the child's life if they don't.
That's how the system should work and you can't guess how it might work, it's what we have in place secularly for this circumstance. Spinning around in your mind with options that don't exist will just allow evil to continue to accomplish what it's already doing - destroying lives. G-d help that baby. This is one of those situations where you know they need G-d to get it together, but it's like where can you introduce them to Him. I don't know. You'll have to consider that based on what you know and if G-d is calling you to that. Otherwise, protecting the baby is your only choice as far as I can see because no one else seems to be. I think there is potential for the grandmother to take that role though based on what you've said, if she somehow feels empowered.
I guess I'm saying, I think your responsibilities extend beyond just cutting ties should these people remain your tenants. You'll have no choice but to somehow intervene to meet G-d's expectations, and it seems that would be involving the police.
|
|
|
|
Post by mystic on Mar 30, 2019 8:01:23 GMT -8
Seems you may be misreading what I have written. I never said the tenants don;t pay rent, I said we had given them an 8-day grace period. That is because they were having issue paying on the 1st of the month.
Also, as mentioned her son and girlfriend is scheduled to leave by tomorrow to go back to GA so the fighting will not be an issue anymore unless they should visit again and that I will nip in the bud.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Mar 30, 2019 8:37:46 GMT -8
Yes, I'm having a hard time following the situation as you explained it and there are some events you described taking place that don't make sense to me. I think it's because there's so much going on that its just too much to communicate in this setting.
Regarding the proverb you mentioned as I guess that's the main topic at hand - it gives a list of what is abominations and states "one who sows strife among brethren". It's the one sowing strive that is called an abomination, and to say it's what the one does is adding words not there. Looking at the Hebrew to determine whether the word translated "one who sows strife" is indeed being used as a noun or if it's a verb may give you more confidence or reason to consider an alternative meaning. ( but just saying that makes me nervous because it's just dangerous) Maybe Alon can help us to with how it's said in the Hebrew and if this is a good translation of what's said.
However, generally, I seriously suggest avoiding adding words into verses to make more sense according to your own feelings or ideas. It will create unnecessary complication and potentially terrible sin just in doing it as we're admonished not to add or take away from the words of G-d in scripture. (Deut 4:2, Rev 22:18-18)
|
|
|
|
Post by mystic on Mar 30, 2019 10:00:18 GMT -8
Yes my situation is definitely not normal and way too much going on to keep track of. No, I am not adding words to scripture, just wondering whether it's the person or act that is an abomination because Christians say "hate the sin, not the sinner". i had alway thought those were Christ's words but researching this now, I am not finding any scripture for it. I did come across this: plainsimplefaith.com/the-bible-doesnt-say-love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin-the-defense-series/which states: Likewise, Christians are to hate what God hates (i.e. sin), and love what God loves (i.e. our fellow man). The phrase, “Love the sinner, hate the sin,” merely serves as a reminder that we are to love others while at the same time hating the sin they practice. So that is confusing me for as in this case, if I am to follow that advice then I cannot evict these tenants? |
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Mar 30, 2019 10:47:42 GMT -8
I think I understand what you're struggling with better now and I think it does stem from Christian confusion about love and hate. G-d can do both in a way we can't. That's why we leave it to Him but shut our mouths and do what He says when it comes to sin. It's clear, we're to have nothing to do with sin. That means sever ties with those who refuse to leave their sin as they will drag you into it.
Without the covering of Yeshua, we are all abominable before G-d. Therefore, it is not our place to decide who G-d tolerates and doesn't. All we can do is accept grace. So then we must also accept His judgment. This is where we can find compassion and still be firm in our refusal to accept sin - Yeshua is the One Who makes the difference. It has nothing to do with what we've done and it's not our place to assume more or less. This is where things get confusing with our Christian mindset.
Christians seem to apply what Yeshua gives to believers (grace) to non-believers to a presumptuous fault. The truth is without Yeshua we would all be consumed in G-d's wrath. Instead of taking sin more seriously because of that, they seem to think grace gives them a reason to put up with sin from those who refuse to humble themselves to accept Him and His grace. Yeshua died for sin and that should do the opposite then what it seems to do in many Christian minds. We don't give His grace to someone who hates Him. We don't give His grace period because His grace is about overcoming sin and we can't do that. He gives grace, we practice grace, but there are parameters for the sake of all of us - we must accept grace on G-d's terms.
As far as we're concerned,He extends grace to everyone but not all receive it. So the line for us is then to know He is the one who extends it and we just follow His lead. In other words, we cannot misapply His words to the rebellious, those who hate Him, and those who love sin. We have to draw a line according to His way.
Christianity has gotten us into trouble by trying to apply Yeshua's grace too broadly to the point they compromise His commandments for the sake of those who love sin. G-d tells us to have nothing to do with sin, and that definitely means severing ties with some people or limiting the level of relationship we have with them, but it doesn't mean you stop loving them. It just means you love and trust G-d and believe He knows best for all, you can't associate with sin without it pulling you down.
Compassion in our mutual humanity and dependence on G-d is due everyone, but sin is not a game and Christians are going to need to walk a more humble line to overcome this world because this world loves sin. It is hard, but think of it this way. If you are to compromise G-d's will and way, you're not going to help anyone anyway. You'll just be another source of sin.
If you find you're heart wishing evil against someone, that's hate. But if you walk away from someone or a situation because that's how you can follow the will of G-d then you are doing what's best for them as well as you. At least, you invited His will into the situation and showed the line between right and wring. G-d knows sin will swallow us up so He commands us to have nothing to do with it. It doesn't give us permission to be coldhearted but it reflects the truth that sin cannot and will not be tolerated. At some point they will have to know and learn that. Better now than later. We can't contend with sin, we have to stay away from it. Yeshua contends with it, and that's the only reason we can overcome it. But those who don't have Him can't and you cannot overcome that. He is there and they are not without hope as they can always humble themselves and choose Him, but if they dont an unguarded relationship with them will bring you and your witness down.
It's a really fine line we walk, but it's not complicated if you follow Him. If they don't accept Him, you have to be guarded and limit your relationship with them. So yes, you may have to sever relationships but more often just be very realistic in our limits. We can love someone and walk away from them or just not participate with them in life on certain levels at the same time because Yeshua knows what He's doing and we don't. We show His grace but it's not ours to give. He will not tolerate sin, but He will help those who depend on Him overcome it. We just follow His lead in humility and gratitude. If the only way you can avoid sin is to avoid the person, and that's possible, you probably should. If it's not possible to avoid them, then you're probably being called to learn and strengthen more internal boundaries and limits to overcome sin on a deeper level with the help of G-d. I have learned that emotion is a red flag for an internal spiritual weakness and boundary I need to strengthen regarding relationships I'm not called to end or avoid. I still have to practice limits, but they have more to do with internal, personal, spiritual weaknesses He is showing me than the other person. I need to deal with weaknesses that He wants to help me overcome so that I can love more purely. It's been about humility and wisdom a lot for me in such relationships, but for non-family members, I don't think He has called me to stay in such situations. But I'm not working with the public and out and about so I can see how that would get really tricky.
Regarding these tenants, I think if the mom doesn't step up, you'll have to because it's not a good influence on your household and your obligation is to them. I hope G-d somehow intervenes similarly for the sake of their baby.
|
|
- there are 70 faces to 
and no honor. And in Jewish thought of the time that was written, "thy neighbor" meant those of your own sect and community. "Love thy neighbor" did not mean just allow someone to move in and take advantage of you, ruining your life. It sounds to me like the real problem is not your ex singing in the shower, but these people and possibly more like them taking advantage of you.
