Believers and anti-depressants?

[Elizabeth]

My doctor thinks I should start taking anti-depressants and said I have subclinical depression. I'm not surprised, but I'm wondering what does that mean for my spiritual state as a believer? I feel like my environment is too much for me and I'm spiritually isolated because of religious beliefs and family constraints. In other words I don't have what G-d gives us to cope with life in my life. It just seems almost natural to be depressed in my circumstances, so I kind of struggle through waiting for G-d to help and guide or listening to the doctor.

My experience is not consistent with most believers based on what I hear. I have been dealing with it by just trying to find ways to better handle my circumstances according to G-d, but nothing is changing. It feels like the better I do the worse my circumstances get, and now the doctor wants me to take medication so apparently my approach of just struggling through isn't working.

So all of this just seems contrary to trusting in G-d. I do trust G-d, but the truth is I need help and my environment isn't changing. The only help I seem to have is secular so I have been refusing it and just wait and pray. Now, I find out what im going through is big enough issue that the doctor thinks I can't overcome it and wants to help. I didn't complain of anything except low energy and she said every time she sees me she thinks "subclinical depression". She says she just sees it in me. So it's like if the doctor can see it, why hasn't G-d d done anything by now.

I'm not having peace and contentment in my daily life except by just convincing myself G-d will help because I feel set up for failure and almost like all that's left is the secular world's solutions. So I wait and work to adjust to my life in some G-dly fashion, but apparently, what I'm doing hasn't worked to the point the doctor thinks I need medical intervention. I know something needs to be done, yet, I don't have anything left to do. So I wait for G-d and just try to look at it as refining what needs to be refined. But pressure seems to characterize my life, and I'm not spiritually handling it well consistently. It's making me sick and exhausted and so I have that much less to handle it well.  So in some ways it makes sense to take medication just so I can be better for my family. But that feels wrong spiritually- your life isn't working so take a chemical to help you accept a life that isn't working. It feels like just another way to escape something wrong in your life that needs to be dealt with.

Meanwhile, I've been asking and waiting for G-d to help me deal with what needs to be dealt with, but He's not. I thought just accepting it and trying to be G-dly through it while waiting for Him was trusting and the best I could do, but the doctor sees that my life is too much for me too. I don't know. Someone caring and wanting to help me is nice, but it feels like I'm giving up on G-d if I take it. It feels like a step back toward worldliness, but maybe I really do need it because I need something to change. I just wait and what I do to try and help myself get through spiritually till He moves either gets shut down before I can do it or taken away somehow. It feels like yet another worldly solution I'm being forced into to deal with spiritual constraints I can't overcome. But something has to change because I'm really doing the best I can, and its not working.

[alon]

Elizabeth, depression is a physical thing. I've dealt with it all my life, but I can't take antidepressants. They either do nothing (best case scenario) or they put me into the shades of depression, having the opposite effect. A few made me angry and some made me prone to violence, so much so I walked out into a field and kept going. Spent the whole evening there. I didn't want my family exposed to that, and I think I could have done someone harm if they crossed me. I tell you that to say this: the docs will encourage you to keep trying whatever they prescribed. But you know if something is wrong, and if it is then you should discontinue the meds. Don't let them push you into doing harm. I know one woman who became severely bipolar because the docs kept telling her to just give the meds a chance. I was finally diagnosed by a mental health professional with a condition that makes the drugs useless for me, and is also why I am depressed. 

That said, antidepressants help many people. And it is not a lack of faith to give them a try. If you broke your leg, would you go to the Christian Science Room to pray, or would you go to a doctor? Same thing here- you probably have a chemical imbalance that needs addressing- by a doctor. However ...

Ever since they gave MD's the option to Rx antidepressants, that has been the go-to protocol for a lot of them. And they do NOT as a rule know what they are doing! My advice is go to a mental health doc for anything that messes with your mind. And there is no sin in asking for help from a psychiatrist or counselor, either. 

Continue to pray and look to God to be in control. But He put us here to help each other, and to learn to be helped. And there is a reason for what you are going through. I've been asking "Why" a lot myself lately. But trust Him there is a reason, and we may not see it this side of the grave. But trust God, as you are, while seeking help.

My advice.

Dan C

[Elizabeth]

Dec 19, 2018 12:46:43 GMT -8 alon said:

Elizabeth, depression is a physical thing. I've dealt with it all my life, but I can't take antidepressants. They either do nothing (best case scenario) or they put me into the shades of depression, having the opposite effect. A few made me angry and some made me prone to violence, so much so I walked out into a field and kept going. Spent the whole evening there. I didn't want my family exposed to that, and I think I could have done someone harm if they  crossed me. I tell you that to say this: the docs will encourage you to keep trying whatever they prescribed. But you know if something is wrong, and if it is then you should discontinue the meds. Don't let them push you into doing harm. I know one woman who became severely bipolar because the docs kept telling her to just give the meds a chance. I was finally diagnosed by a mental health professional with a condition that makes the drugs useless for me, and is also why I am depressed. 

That said, antidepressants help many people. And it is not a lack of faith to give them a try. If you broke your leg, would you go to the Christian Science Room to pray, or would you go to a doctor? Same thing here- you probably have a chemical imbalance that needs addressing- by a doctor. However ...

Ever since they gave MD's the option to Rx antidepressants, that has been the go-to protocol for a lot of them. And they do NOT as a rule know what they are doing! My advice is go to a mental health doc for anything that messes with your mind. And there is no sin in asking for help from a psychiatrist or counselor, either. 

Continue to pray and look to God to be in control. But He put us here to help each other, and to learn to be helped. And there is a reason for what you are going through. I've been asking "Why" a lot myself lately. But trust Him there is a reason, and we may not see it this side of the grave. But trust God, as you are, while seeking help.

My advice.

Dan C

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Sorry your struggling too.  What you describe is part of my reluctance too because if things go the way they have been, it will just make things worse. 

I understand about the broke leg example. Maybe it is just a physical issue, but I just don't think that's it primarily is.  I guess I'm also reluctant because I know there are spiritual issues at least underlying or contributing to it that medicine wouldn't address.  So maybe in that way I would only make things worse as well by ignoring or becoming more accepting of the real issue. 

If I broke my leg because I kicked a tree, I wouldn't put a cast on it and go on kicking the tree. I feel like it isn't going to deal with what's actually causing me to be depressed because I think it's more spiritual and environmental than physical. I can't really seem to adequately address those issues so it seems like the only thing within my ability to do regarding it, but it doesn't feel like it's really addressing it. 

[alon]

Dec 19, 2018 18:21:24 GMT -8 Elizabeth said:

Good example @ kicking the tree. But here's the thing: you undoubtedly are facing spiritual attacks, however the enemy knows where we are weak. If this physical problem weakens you, that is where he will thrust the knife!

It's not an all or nothing proposition. Keep opposing the enemy spiritually while getting medical help. And if you get control of the depression, that may make it possible for you to more effectively fight the spiritual battle. I'm not a fan of antidepressants for the reasons I gave earlier; but I would never tell someone not to try them. They may help that person (you). I just say be careful, and don't let the docs push you into something wrong for you. But you won't know if it's wrong unless you try several of the pills on the market.

It took 2-3 months (if I remember correctly) for the woman I know who became bipolar, going in and telling the docs they were not right. But the docs always said "You have to give them a chance to work." So I doubt any will just destroy you right off the bat. Just if you think something is wrong, discontinue and don't let them tell you different.

I will say one thing, if they ramped up the dose slowly, don't just quit cold turkey. That can be dangerous. Just start reducing the dosage and make an appointment so the psych specialist can monitor you.

Dan C

[jimmie]

Women are twice as likely as men to have bouts of depression. Yet men and women score about the same on the PHQ8 test. The test used to determine depression. I think the underlying difference is women more often feel that they cannot do anything about the 8 indicators on the test. And often that is the result of conditioning from church and society in general. The church teaches that men are to be the “bread winners”. But it hardly ever teaches Proverbs 31 showing that women can earn with her hands as well as purchase land etc. Women and men need to know the truth and not accept what they are told by the church or society in general.
There are many things that can contribute to depression:
Genetics: Were your mother or father depressed. Confess the sins of our fathers.
Abuse: Where you abused? Let everyone bear the cost of their own sins. The abuser is the sinner. Do not be punished for their sins.
Diet: Are you eating healthy? And remember one man’s bread may be another man’s poison. Be aware of how foods affect your mood.
Exercise: Make sure you get enough exercise.
Sunlight: Get plenty of indirect sunshine into your eyes. Especially in winter months.
Medications: Be aware of side effects of any medications that you may use.
I am sure there are others as well. You will be in my prayers as you work through this. God bless and keep you.

[garrett]

Dec 19, 2018 10:41:53 GMT -8 Elizabeth said:

My doctor thinks I should start taking anti-depressants and said I have subclinical depression. I'm not surprised, but I'm wondering what does that mean for my spiritual state as a believer? I feel like my environment is too much for me and I'm spiritually isolated because of religious beliefs and family constraints. In other words I don't have what G-d gives us to cope with life in my life. It just seems almost natural to be depressed in my circumstances, so I kind of struggle through waiting for G-d to help and guide or listening to the doctor.

My experience is not consistent with most believers based on what I hear. I have been dealing with it by just trying to find ways to better handle my circumstances according to G-d, but nothing is changing. It feels like the better I do the worse my circumstances get, and now the doctor wants me to take medication so apparently my approach of just struggling through isn't working.

So all of this just seems contrary to trusting in G-d. I do trust G-d, but the truth is I need help and my environment isn't changing. The only help I seem to have is secular so I have been refusing it and just wait and pray. Now, I find out what im going through is big enough issue that the doctor thinks I can't overcome it and wants to help. I didn't complain of anything except low energy and she said every time she sees me she thinks "subclinical depression". She says she just sees it in me. So it's like if the doctor can see it, why hasn't G-d d done anything by now.

I'm not having peace and contentment in my daily life except by just convincing myself G-d will help because I feel set up for failure and almost like all that's left is the secular world's solutions. So I wait and work to adjust to my life in some G-dly fashion, but apparently, what I'm doing hasn't worked to the point the doctor thinks I need medical intervention. I know something needs to be done, yet, I don't have anything left to do. So I wait for G-d and just try to look at it as refining what needs to be refined. But pressure seems to characterize my life, and I'm not spiritually handling it well consistently. It's making me sick and exhausted and so I have that much less to handle it well.  So in some ways it makes sense to take medication just so I can be better for my family. But that feels wrong spiritually- your life isn't working so take a chemical to help you accept a life that isn't working. It feels like just another way to escape something wrong in your life that needs to be dealt with.

Meanwhile, I've been asking and waiting for G-d to help me deal with what needs to be dealt with, but He's not. I thought just accepting it and trying to be G-dly through it while waiting for Him was trusting and the best I could do, but the doctor sees that my life is too much for me too. I don't know. Someone caring and wanting to help me is nice, but it feels like I'm giving up on G-d if I take it. It feels like a step back toward worldliness, but maybe I really do need it because I need something to change. I just wait and what I do to try and help myself get through spiritually till He moves either gets shut down before I can do it or taken away somehow. It feels like yet another worldly solution I'm being forced into to deal with spiritual constraints I can't overcome. But something has to change because I'm really doing the best I can, and its not working.

Hi Elizabeth,

I was online recently and read about the depression you are having. I feel obligated to speak up because I have a lot of experience with these issues myself. I'm only 45 but I've been through the wringer with mental health issues for at least half my life. And the things you mentioned make it clear as day that you are likely depressed.

This may be a lot but I'd like to be of help, so here goes. In my early 20's I struggled with a lot of depression, rage, impulsivity and rapidly changing moods -back and forth. Some was triggered by circumstances and some just came along any time it pleased, when nothing was "going wrong". The periods of depression were as black as could be. And the switch to rage and irritability was just as torturous as the depression. Eventually the depression and anger collided and I just crashed. I found myself admitted to the hospital, in a psychiatric ward. I couldn't function. I was told that I had clinical depression and began a regimen of antidepressants. They were generally helpful for a while. They pulled me out of a rut and my mood and daily life became more manageable. Eventually, I felt too good and went through the roof. After seven years of trying a score of different antidepressants and going to the psychiatric ward several more times....the medical geniuses figured it out by inquiring further. They said I was displaying and describing manic-depressive symptoms (now called bipolar). It turned out to be true and I was placed on mood stabilizers in order to get some consistency in life. Ironically, I've read that it usually takes an average of seven years for a bipolar person to be correctly diagnosed. It's taken a long time but my life has become more manageable, though I do still have to keep an eye on myself to keep from getting too stressed and overcommitted.

The story above is about something that seemed to have a life of its own. I wasn't a screw-up as a person. I wasn't some heathen. I just had serious mental health issues and they needed to be addressed - or I wasn't going to function anymore.

Now, around 16 years ago I lost a three and a half year old son. Not long afterwards, his mother (my first wife) decided to leave the marriage. There was no talking her out of it whatsoever. Naturally, these two things devastated me. I was a true shipwreck for a couple years. I already had mental health issues and these circumstances took me over the edge. I ended up hospitalized again and they made some increases and adjustments to the drugs I was taking. During all of this, I had a significant corporate job working for a healthcare technology company, managing dozens of people and making business trips to "anywhere" within the continental US. It was really hard to function each day with my existing diagnosis and the black depression that was brought about by the loss of my son and wife. Time, regular doctor visits, a therapist and drawing to G-d in complete humble desperation helped me through the worst of this period.

I promise, this is not a "story about me." It's intended to address you.

My point is that depression can come from so many places. Some people are very prone to it (especially women), some is caused by repeated exposure to unchanging difficulties in life and some is from tragedy.

In my experience, I keep a rule of thumb that NONE OF THIS is to be over-spiritualized. Sure, the enemy strikes where we are weak. But when our body or mind fails us it is perfectly acceptable to seek help. I dropped the "pull myself up by my bootstraps" mentality ages ago - because it's of no use to a reasonable, responsible and moral person. Your good spiritual standing may not cause any improvement whatsoever with regard to longstanding depression. Sometimes G-d does not "act" but instead leaves us with the sovereignty to make our own decisions - as best as possible - with what we know. It's trial and error.

Your religious standing does not need to inform this anymore than it would if you had Crohn's disease, asthma or cancer. In these cases you would try to seek help! So is the case with infirmities of the mind. Oftentimes, good cognitive behavioral therapy combined with a conservative dosage of meds can be a big help. Some folks improve faster than others. Each of us is different. The idea of taking a medication to help you better manage your life is not "worldliness." It is neither spiritual nor secular. It's just a possibility for improvement. I threw away all those anecdotes a long time ago - I don't have time for them. I just want to have a functional life in spite of my past and present circumstances.

It's just my opinion but I would suggest some things:

Ask around (ask your PCP, scour the internet) for a good psychiatric MD who specializes in depression. You might have better luck with a female doctor. I have and I think it's because they are more people-centered than men. Then make the soonest appointment for a consultation. She/He will likely recommend starting you on an antidepressant. If you choose to try medication, start at the LOWEST dose possible. If it's a "20 mg tablet" tell your doctor that you'd like to split it in half and just take half for a week or two. You never know, it may be helpful at small doses and any possible side effects will be lessened. Then increase the dosage slowly over the weeks. But listen to your doctor as well (obviously).

Second, in the same manner, seek someone such as a licensed therapist, social worker or psychotherapist who also has a specialty in depression in women. A lot of these folks specialize in multiple issues so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you're lucky, a good referral to a doctor and therapist can really help. Give them a chance but if either one of them really stinks (in your opinion....your gut will tell you) then get rid of them and try someone else. Don't waste your time on useless morons with degrees.

The therapist can help you in the work you have to do for your own mind. They can give you good strategies for dealing with the hellish aspects of life that just won't change. It's about managing your life and learning to cope in a healthy way. It's also about changing and improving the way you think.

Don't withhold information from your doctor or therapist. This is about you, so divulge your personal circumstances, symptoms, fears, worries, anger, etc. This is easier to do once you've established some trust with the person.

Lastly, there are some things you do have control over. Do your best to structure your days and weeks. Get enough sleep. Drink enough water. Eat better. Moderate exercise. 20 minute brisk walks are really good. And be sure to do something that is personally meaningful to YOU on a regular basis. This is self-care. It's a must.

I know this is lengthy but I can't think of a way to do the "Cliff's Notes version!"

Admit that you're weak in this area and try getting some help. This isn't about chemical solutions for a screwed up life. It's about fixing things as best as possible in order to get on with life.

G-d Bless You! garrett

Feel free to ask questions. I hope this is useful. I apologize in advance if anything comes across the wrong way. I'm truly just trying to be helpful.

Luke 5:31 And Yeshua answered and said to them, "Those who are healthy have no need for a doctor, but those who are sick do...."

[Elizabeth]

Thanks, I'm glad things are going better for you now. You've been through a lot. I appreciate your advice, and there is a lot of wisdom in what you share. Thanks! 

I agree I'm depressed so I know something's not right. I am seriously considering the medicine. I'm just not sure because I can think of things I could do to help me in the same way medication might because I'm sure it's environmental.  When I just talk with people out and about and engage in life I'm really happy, but my biggest issue is homelife. So I guess what I'm struggling with is that I haven't dealt with any of this the way a secularly or logically minded person would, so now starting to deal with it by medicating myself just feels wrong.  

A good secular counselor would probably suggest I separate from my husband. I could also go to church and get out and do more in the weekends to socialize. I haven't done these things because of spiritual beliefs. If I weren't concerned with G-d's commands, I would have left my marriage, stuck my kids in school, went to a local church, got a job and joined the PTA. Instead I'm trying to teach my kids biblical truth and work things out in my household. All of this has lead to me being very isolated, and my nearest family is a 6 hour drive. Even now, if I weren't worried about false teaching for my kids, I'd go to the local church for fellowship and have a support system rather than take medicine. I really think these are the issues making me depressed. They're a direct consequence of my faith and so it's weird if medicating myself is the way to handle them. 

I know there are people who suffer on a level I can't even imagine. You are one, and I believe you.  There are situations that's the only choice, but I already know what logicallily minded solutions I could do to address the issues depressing me without medicine.  It's just outside of G-d's will so I don't do them. It feels contrary to so many decisions that I have made concerning my life because of G-d that have brought me here that it's  like I've missed somewhere else along the line in terms of me and G-d. Just struggling with it because it's so contrary. 

You have overcome a lot Garrett. Thanks for sharing, and I will consider all you've said because I do know I'm depressed. It's just confusing because of what I've mentioned above. G-d is working stuff out with me. He has shown me a couple things recently - little but meaningful things. I need to reach out to the community more somehow, but that's mostly done through churches and it's too distant to really be much witness often, but I think that's the direction I feel myself being called to. Maybe that's some of what's going on- I shouldn't be so isolated and need to figure out where and how He wants me to engage.

I'm sorry there's been so much tragedy in your life. It's hard to know what to say except that I can't imagine how much you've been through, I'm glad you found Yeshua and we're blessed by you here.  I really am grateful for your advice, prayers, and blessings.  I hope you and your wife are really blessed from here on out and will keep you in my prayers!