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Post by alon on Nov 13, 2018 11:54:46 GMT -8
Yes Dan, doing nothing on a Saturday will certainly be a challenge for me, no issues after 6pm on a Friday. I have been toying with an idea for a couple of years now. There is a guy with a local church close by here who does charity work on Saturdays, clothing drives, mentoring and ministering to youth. i have always wanted to be a part of it in any way I can help and include maybe computer classes for kids. Thing is God may see this as work and not rest but this as mentioned will be good physical and mental therapy for me so definitely not work at all the way I see it. The only other main issue I will have is we do groceries every 2nd Saturday because I don't drive and my wife leaves for work from 6.30am and gets back home between 8-9pm so that throws out Mon-fri which leaves only Saturday as she's in Church on Sunday morning and in the Choir and all that and she rests on Sunday afternoon/evening. It would not be fair for me to leave the grocery shopping to her alone as some of it is very heavy so i don't know what to do about this situation. I too continued working with the church where I had attended even after I became Messianic. What I found was as my knowledge and understanding of doctrinal differences grew it became more difficult for me to stay with the church programs. What do you say, for instance, when the kids ask questions? Do you give them the church position because it is their program, or do you tell them the truth? Either way you break a trust- one with the church and the other with God. And even if you are careful not to teach against the church doctrines, you will find that many there will trust you less and less. So that issue will tend to resolve itself. Living in a divided home is a bit more tricky. I too live in a divided home as my wife refuses to even look at or discuss what I do in MJ. We've reached a point where we each respect the others position. We compromise on many things, and those where we can we leave the other to do their own thing. However it can be tough. To Christians compromise usually means the Messianics will just have to do it the way the church says. Shabbat I've found is a tough one, because almost everyone else is set up to use that day as a play day. They will often schedule things on Shabbat and just expect us to join in. If you do, it will never stop. So yes, you may have to compromise some things like the grocery shopping. But learn to stand your ground on most things, otherwise you'll be drug out every Shabbat. It can be tough, especially as we tend to look for an excuse to get out anyhow. I study a lot on Shabbat. And there's nothing wrong with going for a walk with your wife or other activities that are not work and don't require you to buy or sell. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Nov 26, 2018 6:36:10 GMT -8
Sorry i am only now seeing this post Dan, the email notifs never work for me on this forum. I think it might be due to no "email me of any replies" option available here?
Anyway. i had spoken to an Orthodox Jewish guy who came here to me last week and Yosi had said that being the only person in this household will make it difficult for me to properly observe Shabbat just as you have mentioned above. I think though once I get that Saturday shopping issue settled I should be good, should know by this w/e.
I can give up using the phone but for now i am not sure about the computer and TV. I think I will need to turn on the TV to biblical channels only here and there during the day. I don't have to watch any Pastor's shows in particular. For example Daystar has a "Reflections" segment which I really love and it's calming so great therapy for me with the images they use and the scriptures and also for some reason I am able to focus on the scriptures it's showing in a really great way, I don't really know why it has that effect on me. Then there is "Israelcam" which helps me reflect on the Motherland.
I started having some trouble reading printing material since earlier this year so I may to rely on the computer to do only bible studies as I am not good with watching videos and listening to tapes. So I may have to tweak things here and there as I progress to find a system which works for me but is in line with doing it in the proper way.
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Post by alon on Nov 26, 2018 19:36:12 GMT -8
Sorry i am only now seeing this post Dan, the email notifs never work for me on this forum. I think it might be due to no "email me of any replies" option available here? Anyway. i had spoken to an Orthodox Jewish guy who came here to me last week and Yosi had said that being the only person in this household will make it difficult for me to properly observe Shabbat just as you have mentioned above. I think though once I get that Saturday shopping issue settled I should be good, should know by this w/e. I can give up using the phone but for now i am not sure about the computer and TV. I think I will need to turn on the TV to biblical channels only here and there during the day. I don't have to watch any Pastor's shows in particular. For example Daystar has a "Reflections" segment which I really love and it's calming so great therapy for me with the images they use and the scriptures and also for some reason I am able to focus on the scriptures it's showing in a really great way, I don't really know why it has that effect on me. Then there is "Israelcam" which helps me reflect on the Motherland. I started having some trouble reading printing material since earlier this year so I may to rely on the computer to do only bible studies as I am not good with watching videos and listening to tapes. So I may have to tweak things here and there as I progress to find a system which works for me but is in line with doing it in the proper way. I use the computer to study and the phone, however I limit what use them for. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Nov 28, 2018 4:43:30 GMT -8
I intend on doing the same and also will still try to read some printed material during the day. One thing I have noticed, i need the TV to be on while doing bible studies. I cannot explain why this ADD mind of mine works this way. I tried reading scriptures with the TV off and it simply didn't work, I always need to have the TV on one of the bible channels to be able to focus. Thing is, in Church it's the opposite. There I need total solitude if I am to pray in the spirit so I can't understand this. I admire the Japanese's ability to meditate on prayer. I am seeking some way to get their discipline to help me pray in the spirit for more than just a few seconds. p.s The wife says she can handle all shopping alone [maybe she prefers that?  . So no reason why I can't start next w/e. |
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Post by alon on Nov 28, 2018 11:50:46 GMT -8
I intend on doing the same and also will still try to read some printed material during the day. One thing I have noticed, i need the TV to be on while doing bible studies. I cannot explain why this ADD mind of mine works this way. I tried reading scriptures with the TV off and it simply didn't work, I always need to have the TV on one of the bible channels to be able to focus. Thing is, in Church it's the opposite. There I need total solitude if I am to pray in the spirit so I can't understand this. I admire the Japanese's ability to meditate on prayer. I am seeking some way to get their discipline to help me pray in the spirit for more than just a few seconds. p.s The wife says she can handle all shopping alone [maybe she prefers that? . So no reason why I can't start next w/e. Everyone is different, and while I can't understand ADD itself, I can understand that your needs are different than mine. God understands this too, which is why there is a hierarchy to the mitzvoth and why we have an Oral  . If you absolutely need the TV on to help you focus, then so be it. However I would make a couple of suggestions to try. But they are only suggestions, so if they don't work for you then you must do what does work. Try putting on a mix of Messianic music instead of TV Evangelists. I say this beause if the evangelist preaches bad theology you may pick up on that subconsciously or otherwise. Try reading a short passage every day. Sit and think on or meditate on it quietly for as long as you can. Keep a journal of the scriptures and how long you were able to meditate. The idea is to exercise the mind to try and increase the time you meditate over time. It may only be 20 seconds to start before your mind wanders. Don't worry about that (you have me beat by 15 sec when am tired, which is all the time). But try to increase that time after a while. Praying in the Spirit can mean different things to different people. To a Pentecostal it means speaking in tongues. An Evangelical might think you feel God's presence wen you pray. A Satanist might think you were given over to demonic spirits. So be careful when you use that term. Personally, as your focus improves I think you will detect His presence more. I know when I am really tired or have to take a lot of meds and my mind is scattered I seldom feel God there. I pray anyhow, but I don't really see God in the chaos. God actually shows Himself more clearly to me in doing things like writing the par'shot. There has been times when He clearly just took over, and I was shocked by the outcome! Other times I just feel His presence, or I get a feeling of the awe, the majesty, or the power of God. But studying and then writing can itself be a type of prayer. So you might try writing a short meditative piece and see if that helps your focus. Just some ideas to try. Hope they help, but do whatever works for you. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Nov 28, 2018 12:34:21 GMT -8
I appreciate every suggestion thanks! ADD can mean one has very short bursts of focus on any one thing before the mind totally drifts on to something else totally unrelated.
Praying in the spirit for me is being able to focus on God alone during my prayer, I try to envision that I am seeing him in the sky, an older white bearded majestic looking man and Jesus standing or seated next to him on his right. Sometimes I will start my prayer and while the words are coming out my mind will drift then I would need to stop and refocus then continue. I will try your suggestion for this but just for the record 20 seconds ia a very long time for me, usually 5 seconds is too long for my attention span.
When I am praying the Amidah at 9 and 3, that's easy as I have a blown up pic on the East wall in my room with Moses in front of the burning bush so I look intensely at the burning bush while I am saying that prayer. My brain always works with physical imagery. I remember things as far back as when I was 5 years old which amazes everyone in my circles but i think that's due to having photographic memory.
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 28, 2018 15:14:03 GMT -8
I appreciate every suggestion thanks! ADD can mean one has very short bursts of focus on any one thing before the mind totally drifts on to something else totally unrelated. Praying in the spirit for me is being able to focus on God alone during my prayer, I try to envision that I am seeing him in the sky, an older white bearded majestic looking man and Jesus standing or seated next to him on his right. Sometimes I will start my prayer and while the words are coming out my mind will drift then I would need to stop and refocus then continue. I will try your suggestion for this but just for the record 20 seconds ia a very long time for me, usually 5 seconds is too long for my attention span. When I am praying the Amidah at 9 and 3, that's easy as I have a blown up pic on the East wall in my room with Moses in front of the burning bush so I look intensely at the burning bush while I am saying that prayer. My brain always works with physical imagery. I remember things as far back as when I was 5 years old which amazes everyone in my circles but i think that's due to having photographic memory. Based on my own experience, I would avoid the imagery if I could. Evill can mess with that in really weird ways, and there's some reason we're cautioned against the use of images assiciated with G-d. I now believe it's because of that. I know that's really hard to do, but after I have dealt with evil more, I now actively resist allowing images in my mind while I pray. It can happen that there's no image in your mind, and your focus will shift more to hearing than feeling and the here and now. Listening to the passages and prayers as you read or pray helped me focus and tune out the mess the most. I also write as I read and study for focus, but I've always done that. I used to feel kind of guilty and wasteful because I'm just writing what is already written,but that's just the way I learn and focus. I've kind of accepted that about myself at this point. I always write when I'm focusing, reading, studying.... It may help you with your attention as well, then maybe the electronics and stuff wouldn't be a necessity. Also, if it's just the background noise that helps, you could try a sound machine or fan. |
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Post by mystic on Nov 29, 2018 4:44:34 GMT -8
It can happen that there's no image in your mind, and your focus will shift more to hearing than feeling and the here and now. Listening to the passages and prayers as you read or pray helped me focus and tune out the mess the most. I think this might be what I am seeking when I mentioned praying in the spirit as Chana did and with the discipline of the Japanese. I had tried this a few times in the past after reading Chana's story by either saying the prayer in my mind and also tried just moving my lips without hearing myself speak. Problem was I was so very drained after doing so that I didn't know if I was doing this in the right way? |
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 29, 2018 5:27:23 GMT -8
It can happen that there's no image in your mind, and your focus will shift more to hearing than feeling and the here and now. Listening to the passages and prayers as you read or pray helped me focus and tune out the mess the most. I think this might be what I am seeking when I mentioned praying in the spirit as Chana did and with the discipline of the Japanese. I had tried this a few times in the past after reading Chana's story by either saying the prayer in my mind and also tried just moving my lips without hearing myself speak. Problem was I was so very drained after doing so that I didn't know if I was doing this in the right way? I'm not sure what was happening in Channa's heart and mind because it was really between her and G-d, except she was sincere and humble. Trying too hard may kind of block you though. I use Ecclesiastes 5 to kind of guide my thinking because I've kind of just accepted that I can't make anything happen. Trying and pushing for anything, even if it seems good to me, hadn't typically worked out well. Be not rash with your mouth, nor let your heart be hasty before G-d, for G-d is in heaven and you are on earth. Therefore let your words be few. Ecclesiastes 5:2 We're really just trying to align our will with G-d's in prayer so it's more about hearing and discerning than anything. It's good though because it takes the pressure and focus off you. I just learned and now accept that I can't do anything meaningful or accomplish much if He isn't moving so I wait and wonder but pay attention more. |
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Post by mystic on Nov 29, 2018 7:20:32 GMT -8
There was a time earlier this year and in the past years that I had seen that it was mainly whenever I had reached rock bottom in frustration with a situation that I would get some relief. i one day decided that I would no longer do that anymore and haven't allowed myself to reach that stage emotionally since then. I still don't know if i get more help when I get to that stage or if it was just coincidence? Now I know that word does not exist in the jewish vocabulary so then what does that mean, that God or Jesus helps me the most or hears my prayers best when I get to that stage?
This I think is my main reason for striving to get as close to God and Jesus as I can in my praying.
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 29, 2018 9:44:21 GMT -8
There was a time earlier this year and in the past years that I had seen that it was mainly whenever I had reached rock bottom in frustration with a situation that I would get some relief. i one day decided that I would no longer do that anymore and haven't allowed myself to reach that stage emotionally since then. I still don't know if i get more help when I get to that stage or if it was just coincidence? Now I know that word does not exist in the jewish vocabulary so then what does that mean, that God or Jesus helps me the most or hears my prayers best when I get to that stage? This I think is my main reason for striving to get as close to God and Jesus as I can in my praying. I've experienced that feeling before, but have found more stability inwardly just through trusting G-d. Maybe it's similar for you. I believed a lot of lies that gave me a false sense of hope and guarantees of others salvation. I had to let all that go and start at square one with just trusting G-d to see any real difference in my life, but when I looked, there was a lot of improvement I didn't notice as things were moving on. It sounds like you may be believing some lies because G-d is helping you, period. It may not feel like G-d is helping you, and it may not be the help you want, but He is helping in a way wiser than you could probably understand. So that might be a bit about trust for you as G-d has promised to never leave or forsake us. That's just how it is so we don't need to question that even if we feel alone and abandoned. That's a feeling based in fear and lies that G-d has already spoken truth to. He didn't promise us an easy life, that our whole family will be saved, that we will know what's ahead of us in this life to find our way, so you just have to trust Him with that day by day. satan pulled me in with false hope and assurance through lies, but G-d wants us to depend on Him and not having everything all together so that's what I can share related to what you said from my own experience. I think G-d will bring us to a low point to increase faith and get our attention, but He doesn't want us to have to learn the hard way. So I don't think planning on rock bottom is the answer, but maybe not fearing it either. If I were you, I'd start considering trust and such as it relates to G-d. He's there whether you see Him or feel Him. It's almost like He wants us trust Him more than what we see, understand, or feel. I think that's one thing He has or is working out with me. Life looks overall hopeless and so many dead ends in this life. I can't see a good outcome for many people in my life or my own earthly life unless He acts. So that's how it is, but that's how it was always, I just thought I could do more. I trust G-d can accomplish what I can't imagine, but He also has perfect wisdom. I can't see everything His way but I can trust He's more loving and wise than me. I just hope people learn, but don't haven't to learn the hard way, but I know He'll go that direction in love with them if He has to and that's still hope. I feel like life is at a stand still because I want to see what I want to see but I just know it's not and that's because G-d is perfect and merciful. So time and waiting do have hope. I just can't see it. Anyway, off topic, but I do think I hear some issues with trust in your post. I also just want to clarify based on how you worded sone phrases, do you believe Yeshua is G-d? |
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Post by mystic on Nov 30, 2018 4:42:15 GMT -8
You have given a very good assessment of my situation and yes, faith [trust in the lord] and patience in particular is something i have been working very hard at to instill in me. Also since I tend to naturally take things literally, this scripture "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.", i had put a lot into that scripture. So now since I have been fervently praying for certain things in my life for a few years now and not seeing any progress in the particular important things I have been asking for, this is where the frustration comes from and hit's me like a ton of bricks sometimes.
I pray to God for certain things and I do the same with Jesus and God's spirit inside of me separately and I have been getting help with a lot of requests which of course I am totally grateful for but for some of the most important things yes, not getting the help I want as you have accurately stated, So for me why this scripture if i put so much belief in it and I am not getting what I ask for? That is at the heart of my frustrations. Then I hear people with words like 'God won't give you what he doesn't see as being right for you" or to use your words "It may not feel like G-d is helping you, and it may not be the help you want, but He is helping in a way wiser than you could probably understand". If this is the case then are not those words contradictory to the scripture mentioned? So does that mean I should not believe in that scripture and focus instead on some other scripture?
No I do not believe Jesus is God based on the amount of times Jesus himself said he is the "son" of God. I see Jesus as a great prophet and intercessor so I ask of him to talk to the Father for me and also ask for his blessings, protection and guidance.
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 30, 2018 5:47:34 GMT -8
I pray to God for certain things and I do the same with Jesus and God's spirit inside of me separately and I have been getting help with a lot of requests which of course I am totally grateful for but for some of the most important things yes, not getting the help I want as you have accurately stated, So for me why this scripture if i put so much belief in it and I am not getting what I ask for? That is at the heart of my frustrations. Then I hear people with words like 'God won't give you what he doesn't see as being right for you" or to use your words "It may not feel like G-d is helping you, and it may not be the help you want, but He is helping in a way wiser than you could probably understand". If this is the case then are not those words contradictory to the scripture mentioned? So does that mean I should not believe in that scripture and focus instead on some other scripture? No I do not believe Jesus is God based on the amount of times Jesus himself said he is the "son" of God. I see Jesus as a great prophet and intercessor so I ask of him to talk to the Father for me and also ask for his blessings, protection and guidance. I don't know what you're experiencing when you pray, but if it's supernatural, it's very likely demonic because the Holy Spirit is a gift of Yeshua and you don't believe in Him. You believe He was good and a prophet, but many religions believe that so that's not the same thing as believing in Him as we do. That verse you refer to says "anything you ask in my Name" and the context of the passage helps give it more meaning as its basically about aligning your will with G-d's as I spoke of in another post. For example, Paul was not granted the prayer to get away from the thorn in His flesh and Yeshua prayed take this cup from me if its your will - the example for us. Yet, neither one of them received what they asked for from their place of human weakness. But in their lives we see why and both accomplished more than they would have otherwise had they simply been removed from those circumstances. The character of Yeshua, the Name we are told to pray and ask in, is submissive to G-d's will. So the tone changes to where you say more this is what I want and feel, but I trust G-d's wisdom and perfection more than what I want and feel. It seems to me it's more about sorting things out than getting what you want, but that's because we are called to die to self. To pray in the Spirit of G-d means basically G-d takes over your prayers so you pray for things and needs in a wisdom you can't have in and of yourself. This kind of praying adjusts your mindset and plan to G-d's so that your are strengthened and find purpose enough to accept His will for you in trust, knowing that is better than anything you can do or try to do. If you are praying in Yeshua's Name your will will be one with His and it will be very different prayers from what you would pray as an earthly human of yourself. It will be characterized by holiness, conviction, forgiveness, selflessness, hope and nothing in your circumstances may change. If not, you are simply strengthened and encouraged so that you can accept them knowing you are in G-d's will so there is purpose. You also know with Him there's hope and you're doing the best you can whether you seem to be making much of a difference or not, and you can even be grateful for trials because you are with Him and becoming more like Him. |
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Post by mystic on Nov 30, 2018 6:53:45 GMT -8
So first to be clear, you believe that Jesus is God himself even though his many words state that he is not the Father?
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Post by alon on Nov 30, 2018 8:19:50 GMT -8
So first to be clear, you believe that Jesus is God himself even though his many words state that he is not the Father? God manifest a part of Himself as Yeshua to become fully man yet remain fully God. As an infinite God, He could easily do this. But that is how both Father and Son can exist simultaneously as eternal God, Who is One. It also explains how Yeshua, fully man and with all the weaknesses of men could learn so much so fast. He was dependent on the Ruach to guide Him, to give Him strength, and to perform miracles. He had the greatest teacher of any time in R Hillel, but was exposed to the thinking of other greats like R Shammai and Gamaliel and the many eclectic Rabinim produced in Israel at that time. Beit Lechem sat close to Yerushalayim, so it takes little thoiught to conclude the greatest minds of the time would want to meet the Crown Prince of Yisroel and the boy reputed most likely to be HaMoshiach. It also was just off the convergence of several major trade routes, so He got to hear even of thoughts developing in the pagan world. God refers to Himself as Father, Son, and Spirit in a metaphorical senses so that we can better see the relationship. Yet scripture itself tells us God is Spirit: John 4:24 (ESV) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Colossians 1:15 (ESV) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
1 Timothy 1:17 (ESV) To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Psalm 139:7–10 (ESV)
Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where yshall I flee from your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
If I take the wings of the morning
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
even there your hand shall blead me,
and your right hand shall hold me.Only as the Ruach can God be omniscient and omnipresent. And only as the Ruach does He usually (Yeshua being the most notable exception) insert Himself in the affairs of men. Whenever Yeshua refers to God the Father, He is referring to that greater part of God not invested in human form nor sent as Spirit to help us. Similarly when He refers to the Ruach, He is refrencing that part of God's Spirit sent to help us or guide and teach us. God discussion. Dan C |
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- there are 70 faces to 
. So no reason why I can't start next w/e.
