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Post by causalset on Sept 17, 2018 15:39:50 GMT -8
Most Messianics believe in deity of Jesus, but there are some of them that reject it (such as redacted for example). Does any of you familiar with statistics in terms of how many people subscribe to which view (I know the former is majority and the latter is minority, but is anyone able to give me percentages?) Also, do you know of any Messianic congregations that believe that Jesus is Messiah but not God? I learned of one of them by accident: Light of  in Rio Rancho NM. They avoid mentioning their belief in their official statement of faith, but someone told me verbally they believe that so I went there to ask and indeed they do. Do you know of any other congregations that hold such views? moderator note: I had to remove the link because it goes to a site that teaches against our SoF. Just a friendly explanation. Dan |
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Post by alon on Sept 17, 2018 17:06:36 GMT -8
Most Messianics believe in deity of Jesus, but there are some of them that reject it (such as redacted for example). Does any of you familiar with statistics in terms of how many people subscribe to which view (I know the former is majority and the latter is minority, but is anyone able to give me percentages?) Also, do you know of any Messianic congregations that believe that Jesus is Messiah but not God? I learned of one of them by accident: Light of in Rio Rancho NM. They avoid mentioning their belief in their official statement of faith, but someone told me verbally they believe that so I went there to ask and indeed they do. Do you know of any other congregations that hold such views? I don't know if there are any statistics, but I do know many organizations or congregations which do not believe in the eternal deity of Yeshua try to call themselves Messianic. And it is common for them to try and hide that fact until they have sucked you in. However they are not Messianic, but either Ebionites or one of the branches that split off from that movement. They hate it when I point this out to them, but it's the truth. The Ebionites split off from the sect of the Nazarenes very late in the 1st cen CE, and their main point of contention was the eternal deity of Yeshua (Jesus). In recent times the Ebionite faction has split many times, mostly along who/what/when questions of Yeshua. I've heard He was created when God created light, or at His birth on earth, and a few other theories from these groups. And some of them were both graphic and blasphemous. Whenever I meet a new group, either online or in person, one of the first things I want to know is do they believe Yeshua was and is eternally God. If they say no or are evasive, I tell them I cannot fellowship with them. They are usually very persuasive unless you know scripture and your beliefs are strong. But when you counter them or don't go along, they usually start avoiding you. At least that has been my experience, though admittedly limited. A true Messianic fellowship believes Yeshua is, always was, and always will be the Self Existent God. Some still hold to Trinitarian views, and I can fellowship with them (I just don't agree with them). But at least they do hold to His eternal deity. Dan C |
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Post by causalset on Sept 17, 2018 19:07:04 GMT -8
You can't alter definitions of words. By definition, Messianic is someone who is observant and also who believes that Jesus is the Messiah. So, since those groups meet both conditions, they are Messianic. Whether they are HERETIC or not is a different question. And, logically, the fact that some Messianics believe that Jesus is God and others don't, implies that AT LEAST ONE of those two groups is HERETIC. But that doesn't change the fact that they are both Messianic, since both agree with the statement that Jesus is the Messiah. In other words, some of the Messianics are heretic. But, whoever the heretics are, those heretics are still Messianic. Nobody said that all Messianics are saved. So you don't have to say they aren't Messianic in order to state that they aren't saved. |
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Post by alon on Sept 17, 2018 19:51:32 GMT -8
You can't alter definitions of words. By definition, Messianic is someone who is observant and also who believes that Jesus is the Messiah. So, since those groups meet both conditions, they are Messianic. Whether they are HERETIC or not is a different question. And, logically, the fact that some Messianics believe that Jesus is God and others don't, implies that AT LEAST ONE of those two groups is HERETIC. But that doesn't change the fact that they are both Messianic, since both agree with the statement that Jesus is the Messiah. In other words, some of the Messianics are heretic. But, whoever the heretics are, those heretics are still Messianic. Nobody said that all Messianics are saved. So you don't have to say they aren't Messianic in order to state that they aren't saved. I did not change any definitions. I gave you a history lesson there: the followers of Yeshua who split away from the Nazarenes were called Ebionites, and their main cause of concern was the eternal deity of Yeshua. Those who did still believe were still called Nazarenes, the sect which modern Messianism tries to emulate as closely as possible. That means, BY DEFINITION, if you believe in the eternal deity of Yeshua, you are Messianic. If you do not, you are one of the many types of Ebionites. May I ask what are your views on this question? Dan C |
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in Rio Rancho NM. They avoid mentioning their belief in their official statement of faith, but someone told me verbally they believe that so I went there to ask and indeed they do. Do you know of any other congregations that hold such views? 
