Salvation as Messianism Sees It

[alon]

My understanding of personal salvation has underwent some fundamental changes since coming int Messianism. And since the topic has come up recently, I thought I'd post what I noe believe:

Job 14:14, 19:25-26  If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. ... For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

We will face Almighty God in judgement after death.

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 “Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God … ; and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
What is the purpose of the “law” in ? Well, these “laws” are better thought of as “instructions;” and these instructions are written so that we have clear choices. Ignore them and be separated from God, or obey and be close to and blessed by God. We enter into a relationship with God as we become קְדֹשִׁים kedoshim, set apart ones:

Leviticus 11:44a For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy:

Our halacha, our walk with God is to be as close as that of husband and wife who are set apart for each other:

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.

Matthew 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Contemporary Judaism in their doctrine of rejecting Yeshua tends to lean more toward the legalist view, striving to obey the letter of the law. And they do so admirably:

Rabbi Avi Weiss The Meaning of the Word Kadosh The mainstream Jewish approach to kedusha … Every aspect of human physical activity is to be sanctified. This, … is the goal of the ish halakha (halakhic man). To apply Jewish law to every aspect of life, ennobling and yes, “kedushifying” our every endeavor.

However is this enough?

John 5:39-47 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from people. But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

Apparently there is more. Those who reject Yeshua as haMoshiach stand in danger of missing the mark eternally, despite their obedience and even the fact they love El Elohe Yisroel. Christians on the other hand tend to cherry-pick scriptures and oversimplify salvation:

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

But is this enough? Yeshua Himself said:

John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

The further from  you are, and the further from accepting the Anointed One of Yisroel, the more you are in danger of missing the mark.

We are told who will and will not enter the kingdom; who exactly is the Bride of the Christ:

Revelation 21:8,9b-12, 14 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” … “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— … And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. … But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.

We are to love God:

Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

And we are to be obedient to His :

Romans 8:6-7 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
 Because the carnal mind is enmity against Elohim: for it is not subject to the law of Elohim, neither indeed can be.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

However we are also told there is only one name by which we may obtain salvation:

Acts 4:11-12 “This Yeshua is the stone rejected by you builders which has become the cornerstone. There is salvation in no one else! For there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by whom we must be saved!”

Christian theology generally sees this as referring to all Israel rejecting Yeshua. However, while Peter is addressing all Israel in the passage, he specifically addresses the “rulers, elders and -teachers assembled in Yerushalayim, along with ‘Anan the cohen hagadol, Kayafa, Yochanan, Alexander and the other men from the family of the cohen hagadol” as the “builders” who have rejected their cornerstone (vss 5-6).

Nonetheless, we see here three keys to our salvation; loving God, walking in His , but before all else accepting His Annointed One, Yeshua.

[jimmie]

I have believed in the eternal security of the believer, since I first started my walk with God. It only takes half a verse to explain my view of salvation:

II Chronicles 15:2B The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Please do not confuse this with the baptist doctrine of “once saved always save”. This I have abandoned, for the verse clearly states if ye forsake (quit seeking/believing) him, he will forsake you. As long as you seek/believe there is nothing that can separate you from the love/grace/favor/blessing of God.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2018 14:22:39 GMT -8 jimmie said:

I have believed in the eternal security of the believer, since I first started my walk with God. It only takes half a verse to explain my view of salvation:

II Chronicles 15:2B The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Please do not confuse this with the baptist doctrine of “once saved always save”. This I have abandoned, for the verse clearly states if ye forsake (quit seeking/believing) him, he will forsake you. As long as you seek/believe there is nothing that can separate you from the love/grace/favor/blessing of God.

EXACTLY!!! AMEN!!!  

[Elizabeth]

My only other thought in response is about covenant. G-d goes back and forth with Israel throughout scripture, but ultimately He saves them by showing them what life without Him is. But in the end He didn't forsake them, yet only a remnant is saved. I think this kind of applies to us as saved individuals. I don't know for sure exactly how. I just know what it feels like to be saved, and I know even if I struggle with Him, I can depend on Him to help me get back to Him. I lose in the process, but through understanding I gain in gratitude and relationship. I think if you're saved you're saved, but perhaps many who say or even think they are, just aren't. On the contrary, many who are saved just don't know it yet. It's a matter of G-d revealing Himself and theirselves to them. I think we'll be  surprised by who falls, who returns, and who kind of shows up at the last minute; but there is justice in repentance so that no one is better off than the other, and we all have to choose. It's just a matter of when we male the choice and how much you have to endure to make it, but G-d already knows if you'll choose Him. I love the idea of G-d surprising us though so I kind of laugh at the thought of who might show up that surprises me.

Honestly though, I think a lot of people who look really holy will fall away, and a lot of people who look hopeless and lost will surprise us in their victory. I kind of like that though as I explained. i just think based on my own life that those saved who forsake G-d suffer until they repent and come back to Him. That's what we see in Israel. I think that's the same covenant at work in our individual salvation, but we do suffer more and lose in this life and in terms of eternal rewards. Regardless, G-d is glorified as we display His faithfulness to the world either way. He is G-d and He has what He has and keeps it. It will just be a matter of people realizing the sincerity of their faith in terms of a sincere understanding of Who He is. The more I get to know G-d, the more serious I take Him and myself. I just think a lot of people don't know how serious this life is, and when it hits them, it shows who they are. With that in mind, sometimes the best those of us not put through the ringer yet can do is to  refuse to look down on anyone, especially those who come to G-d, regardless of their past. On the contrary, it should actually give us reason to think of them more highly than us because most "believers" probably don't know themselves as well as they think. It should keep us humble and aware, while just grateful for each other. He'll even out the ground so that the haughty are brought low and the humble are lifted up. We should just rejoice in each other's faith, whether it be stable and dependable, a place kept to return to, or hard fought for, a please to aspire to - we're going to need each other to get through. I just like thinking about how G-d works and keeps us all in check. I also like knowing He already sees all of us, a family waiting for those we already need but just have yet to meet. So in my heart this life is just a matter of time for those who we're waiting on. 

I feel disconnected from believers in a lot of ways, but I can at this point in my life be here in my own weakness to tell G-d to act for those who are living in situations I can't begin to know how they could overcome. Pray to be prepared to not make life any harder than it's already been for anyone who wants to come to Him, whatever their past. In the meantime, I'm just going to plead for and rejoice in their strength and kind of depend on that faith spreading through them for me and my children. I hope no one feels unwelcome to come to G-d because of me, and I hope someone will always be there somewhere to welcome and rejoice over my kids regardless how much they have to overcome, including what I handed them. Praise G-d for mercy and hope evident in the people who overcome sin, and praise G-d He made it that simple for us to take care of each other. 

[Questor]

Aug 26, 2018 21:35:54 GMT -8 alon said:

My understanding of personal salvation has underwent some fundamental changes since coming int Messianism. And since the topic has come up recently, I thought I'd post what I noe believe:

Job 14:14, 19:25-26  If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. ... For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

We will face Almighty God in judgement after death.

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 “Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God … ; and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
What is the purpose of the “law” in ? Well, these “laws” are better thought of as “instructions;” and these instructions are written so that we have clear choices. Ignore them and be separated from God, or obey and be close to and blessed by God. We enter into a relationship with God as we become קְדֹשִׁים kedoshim, set apart ones:

Leviticus 11:44a For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy:

Our halacha, our walk with God is to be as close as that of husband and wife who are set apart for each other:

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.

Matthew 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Contemporary Judaism in their doctrine of rejecting Yeshua tends to lean more toward the legalist view, striving to obey the letter of the law. And they do so admirably:

Rabbi Avi Weiss The Meaning of the Word Kadosh The mainstream Jewish approach to kedusha … Every aspect of human physical activity is to be sanctified. This, … is the goal of the ish halakha (halakhic man). To apply Jewish law to every aspect of life, ennobling and yes, “kedushifying” our every endeavor.

However is this enough?

John 5:39-47 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from people. But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

Apparently there is more. Those who reject Yeshua as haMoshiach stand in danger of missing the mark eternally, despite their obedience and even the fact they love El Elohe Yisroel. Christians on the other hand tend to cherry-pick scriptures and oversimplify salvation:

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

But is this enough? Yeshua Himself said:

John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

The further from you are, and the further from accepting the Anointed One of Yisroel, the more you are in danger of missing the mark.

We are told who will and will not enter the kingdom; who exactly is the Bride of the Christ:

Revelation 21:8,9b-12, 14 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” … “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— … And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. … But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.

We are to love God:

Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

And we are to be obedient to His :

Romans 8:6-7 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
 Because the carnal mind is enmity against Elohim: for it is not subject to the law of Elohim, neither indeed can be.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

However we are also told there is only one name by which we may obtain salvation:

Acts 4:11-12 “This Yeshua is the stone rejected by you builders which has become the cornerstone. There is salvation in no one else! For there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by whom we must be saved!”

Christian theology generally sees this as referring to all Israel rejecting Yeshua. However, while Peter is addressing all Israel in the passage, he specifically addresses the “rulers, elders and -teachers assembled in Yerushalayim, along with ‘Anan the cohen hagadol, Kayafa, Yochanan, Alexander and the other men from the family of the cohen hagadol” as the “builders” who have rejected their cornerstone (vss 5-6).

Nonetheless, we see here three keys to our salvation; loving God, walking in His , but before all else accepting His Annointed One, Yeshua.

Alas that despite many Contemporary Jews walking well in as taught by their parents, follow and teach traditions that are in direct contradiction to Deuteronomy 4:2-8

Deuteronomy 4:2-8 (CJB)
2 In order to obey the mitzvot of Adonai your God which I am giving you, do not add to what I am saying, and do not subtract from it.
3 You saw with your own eyes what Adonai did at Ba‘al-P‘or, that Adonai destroyed from among you all the men who followed Ba‘al-P‘or;
4 but you who stuck with Adonai your God are still alive today, every one of you.
5 (ii) Look, I have taught you laws and rulings, just as Adonai my God ordered me, so that you can behave accordingly in the land where you are going in order to take possession of it.
6 Therefore, observe them; and follow them; for then all peoples will see you as having wisdom and understanding. When they hear of all these laws, they will say, ‘This great nation is surely a wise and understanding people.’
7 For what great nation is there that has God as close to them as Adonai our God is, whenever we call on him?
8 What great nation is there that has laws and rulings as just as this entire which I am setting before you today?

What I most object to is not the putting of unnecessary fences around the , which is a matter of local halachah although a great burden not meant by G-d to be done, but the commandments by the Rabbi's and Sages that take precedent over the Tanakh...to the point of saying Brachahs that were not what G-d has said for any of us to do.

Thank G-d for everything, and bless him, but do not say G-d has said to do things that are not in the Tanakh, for then you are worshipping what is tradition, and not G-d, nor are you obeying him.

[alon]

Jul 28, 2019 12:24:54 GMT -8 Questor said:

Alas that despite many Contemporary Jews walking well in as taught by their parents, follow and teach traditions that are in direct contradiction to Deuteronomy 4:2-8 

Deuteronomy 4:2-8 (CJB)
2 In order to obey the mitzvot of Adonai your God which I am giving you, do not add to what I am saying, and do not subtract from it.
3 You saw with your own eyes what Adonai did at Ba‘al-P‘or, that Adonai destroyed from among you all the men who followed Ba‘al-P‘or;
4 but you who stuck with Adonai your God are still alive today, every one of you.
5 (ii) Look, I have taught you laws and rulings, just as Adonai my God ordered me, so that you can behave accordingly in the land where you are going in order to take possession of it.
6 Therefore, observe them; and follow them; for then all peoples will see you as having wisdom and understanding. When they hear of all these laws, they will say, ‘This great nation is surely a wise and understanding people.’
7 For what great nation is there that has God as close to them as Adonai our God is, whenever we call on him?
8 What great nation is there that has laws and rulings as just as this entire which I am setting before you today?

What I most object to is not the putting of unnecessary fences around the , which is a matter of local halachah although a great burden not meant by G-d to be done, but the commandments by the Rabbi's and Sages that take precedent over the Tanakh...to the point of saying Brachahs that were not what G-d has said for any of us to do.

Thank G-d for everything, and bless him, but do not say G-d has said to do things that are not in the Tanakh, for then you are worshipping what is tradition, and not G-d, nor are you obeying him.

This has been a huge problem with mainstream Judaism since the Mishna was codified. According to Avraham Cohen in his book "Everyman's Talmud," the Mishna was supposed to be flexible.  is God's immutable instructions and cannot be changed. Mishna could be. In it along with a lot of commentary and discussion was halacha, including fences. Now there is nothing wrong with fences, but by Yeshua's time they had gotten burdomsome and many were already entrenched as traditions. But later when written down they took on a whole new importance. They were (and still are) held by many sects to be equal to or greater than ! Halach was meant to be the vehicle by which  was made to work for the common man in any place or circumstance. To do this it had to remain changeable, flexible, and certainly not law!It has become instead another means to control the masses, regulating every move from waking to sleep. Worth reading and understanding, and even adopting some of the fences. But mostly we are not bound by any decrees of Rabbinical Judaism, including Mishna at the point it was codified by the Rabbonim. We are bound by , but even then there are some exceptions/higher mitzvoth. 

Dan