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Post by jedidja87 on May 3, 2018 7:17:26 GMT -8
Like in the Bible it speaks of congregation of Ephesus, Congregation of Thyatira, Congregation of Corinth, Congregation of Rome.
When you read Romans 1:7:
7 to all those who are in Rome, beloved of God, called-out saints, Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
It relates to all saints to that place of Rome. When we read chapter 16 we see that Congregation of Rome didn't gather in different place
but there were different gatherings and they were part of congregation of Rome. Like any denominations didn't separate them. Because
they are acts of Flesh 1.Cor 1:10-13, 3:1-5. So my question is that why there is messianic churches and pagan churches separately?
Like there were Jews and Gentiles mixed in the congregation of Rome. Like in The Bible there is no protestant churches, like pentecostal,
free church and there is no catholic or orthodox churches and there is no messianic jewish churches too. It was just the place and for the
church so why we don't just look for the word of God and apply it. I think that it's not God's heart that
Eph 2:
11 Because of this, remember that you, the nations, were then in the flesh (those having been called Uncircumcision by those having been called Circumcision in the flesh made by hand)
12 that at that time you were without Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers of the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now, in Christ Jesus you who then were afar off came to be near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our peace, He making us both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition,
15 in His flesh causing to cease the enmity, the Law of the commandments in decrees, that He might in Himself create the two into one new man, making peace,
16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, slaying the enmity in Himself.
God made like messianic believers and gentiles one. In Christ there is no enmity.. These are just honest thinking of the Bible!
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Post by Elizabeth on May 3, 2018 8:18:25 GMT -8
This is really complicated and difficult. I just know that I personally want to do what G-d says as best I can. I want to follow His ways as best as I can because I think it's how I can prepare myself and my kids for the future delusion. That is where I have a problem with Christianity and religion generally, specifically the Holidays and sacraments. Another road block is that they don't regard Israel as chosen by G-d to the extent that I do. The Kingdom will be a Jewish Kingdom and I don't personally feel that is being rightly regarded in Christianity. and there is something just off with blessing Israel but not really doing much on their behalf. I am seeking the biblical religion I guess, but I don't know what that is cause it's neither Judaism or Christianity, but Christianity has Yeshua and I believe many are walking in the Spirit. If so I hope they as individuals begin to seek out the biblical feasts and G-d's ways more. Meanwhile I don't know where I belong. I don't know if I have the same regard as most Messisnic people do for  as I don't think it makes me any more or less than I was prior to keeping . I do have a deeper understanding and regard for G-d, Yeshua's identity and accomplishments, Israel, and the future all of everything is moving toward. I just think a biblical context of truth and prepared us for the future and gives us safety and understanding so there is blessing in it for sure. With all that said, I don't go to any congregation but that doesn't feel right either as you can't really keep much of what G-d says in the absence of fellowship with other believers. At this point, I am just praying and waiting for G-d to show me what's wrong with what I'm doing or what's next cause He's been kind of quiet lately, but I am noticing some spiritual improvement so He is working. I have been learning a lot more about the idea of order. I think that's the fundamental issue with what you are saying. Yes G-d made Jews and Gentiles one in Yeshua, but the order is that we are to come into Israel not the other way around. When that was the approach being taken during Paul's and the apostle's times there was miraculous growth and testimony in G-d's Kingdom. The adversary has went out of his way to confuse us and keep this from happening, and this is the truth of what we are left with. We are waiting on Israel for the order to be right. Until Jewish people accept and call on Yeshua, this is what we are left with. Yet, we have the Spirit always with us and teaching us, and in the least we can speak the truth to persuade people and also hope Jewish people will have more of a context for all the evil they are prophecied to go through before Messiah returns. |
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Post by alon on May 3, 2018 13:58:00 GMT -8
Those congregations were Messianic synagogues, not churches. And they didn't call themselves Messianic back then either, since the term meant any sect or group looking forward to a messiah. They were the sect of the Notsrim (Nazarenes); a legitimate sect of Judaism until after 135 CE (or AD). After that there was a parting of the ways. But the church developed entirely separately and was not even in it's infancy at the time these letters that became the NT were written. The Nots'rim existed well into and probably beyond the 17th century; this according to the writings of the church fathers who hated them, and thus could not resist writing about them. When the Bible says thee is no enmity or difference in Jew and Gentile, it means regarding salvation: Galatians 3:28 (ESV) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Obviously there are Jews and Greeks and other Gentiles as well; even more obviously there are still men and women; and there are still slaves in he world today as well as free people. So the meaning is found in the last clause, "for you are all one in Christ Jesus." You are one in salvation. Dan C |
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Post by alon on May 3, 2018 14:08:48 GMT -8
... With all that said, I don't go to any congregation but that doesn't feel right either as you can't really keep much of what G-d says in the absence of fellowship with other believers. At this point, I am just praying and waiting for G-d to show me what's wrong with what I'm doing or what's next cause He's been kind of quiet lately, but I am noticing some spiritual improvement so He is working. I have been learning a lot more about the idea of order. I think that's the fundamental issue with what you are saying. Yes G-d made Jews and Gentiles one in Yeshua, but the order is that we are to come into Israel not the other way around. When that was the approach being taken during Paul's and the apostle's times there was miraculous growth and testimony in G-d's Kingdom. The adversary has went out of his way to confuse us and keep this from happening, and this is the truth of what we are left with. We are waiting on Israel for the order to be right. Until Jewish people accept and call on Yeshua, this is what we are left with. Yet, we have the Spirit always with us and teaching us, and in the least we can speak the truth to persuade people and also hope Jewish people will have more of a context for all the evil they are prophecied to go through before Messiah returns. It is tough when in your position, with no congregation to fellowship with. I really feel for you, as I got a taste of what that's like when I first started in MJ. I pray for you often. You are right on track when you say we must come into Israel. It is through the Jews God chose to bring salvation to the world; even us Gentiles. And you are correct that now Israel must come to Yeshua. They don't convert- they are already Jewish. They just accept Yeshua as HaMoshiach. We have to convert, being born Gentile. That is part of the deception of the church, is they have the order turned around, The wild olive tree is the Gentiles, including our churches. The nourished olive tree is Israel, cultivated by . The church says that the Jew must be grafted onto the wild olive tree. God said we Gentiles must be grafted onto the culticated olive tree, which again is Israel. But now that olive tree is cultivated by Yeshua, and so all must come to Him, the very Jewish Messiah. jedidja87, I believe that answers your question about the olive trees as well. Dan C |
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Post by jedidja87 on May 4, 2018 1:03:05 GMT -8
But like in greek word is Ecclesia
1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
2. the assembly of the Israelites
3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
4. in a Christian sense
1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
According to The Thayer’s dictionary:
4. in the Christian sense,
a. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship: ἐν ἐκκλησία, in the religious meeting, 1 Corinthians 14:19, 35; ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις, 1 Corinthians 14:34; συνέρχεσθαι ἐν ἐκκλησία, 1 Corinthians 11:18; cf. Winers Grammar, § 50, 4a.
b. a company of Christians, or of those who, hoping for eternal Salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake; aa. those who anywhere, in city or village, constitute such a company and are united into one body: Acts 5:11; Acts 8:3; 1 Corinthians 4:17; 1 Corinthians 6:4; Philippians 4:15; 3 John 1:6 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 122 (116)); with specification of place, Acts 8:1; Acts 11:22; Romans 16:1; 1 Corinthians 4:17; 1 Corinthians 6:4; Revelation 2:1, 8, etc.; Θεσσαλονικέων, 1 Thessalonians 1:1; 2 Thessalonians 1:1; Λαοδικέων, Colossians 4:16; with the genitive of the possessor, τοῦ Θεοῦ (equivalent to יְהוָה קֲהַל, Numbers 16:3; Numbers 20:4), 1 Corinthians 11:22; and mention of the place, 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 1:1. Plural, αἱ ἐκκλησίαι: Acts 15:41; 1 Corinthians 7:17; 2 Corinthians 8:19; Revelation 1:4; Revelation 3:6, etc.; with τοῦ Θεοῦ added, 1 Thessalonians 2:14; 2 Thessalonians 1:4; τοῦ Χριστοῦ, Romans 16:16; with mention of the place, as τῆς Ἀσίας, Γαλατίας, etc.: 1 Corinthians 16:1, 19; 2 Corinthians 8:1; Galatians 1:2; τῆς Ἰουδαίας ταῖς ἐν Χριστῷ, joined to Christ (see ἐν, I. 6b.), i. e. Christian assemblies, in contrast with those of the Jews, Galatians 1:22; ἐκκλησίαι τῶν ἐθνῶν, gathered from the Gentiles, Romans 16:4; τῶν ἁγίων, composed of the saints, 1 Corinthians 14:33. ἡ ἐκκλησία κατ' οἶκον τίνος, the church in one's house, i. e. the company of Christians belonging to a person's family; others less aptly understand the phrase of the Christians accustomed to meet for worship in the house of someone (for as appears from 1 Corinthians 14:23, the whole Corinthian church was accustomed to assemble in one and the same place; (but see Lightfoot on Colossians 4:15)): Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19; Colossians 4:15; Philemon 1:2. The name ἡ ἐκκλησία is used even by Christ while on earth of the company of his adherents in any city or village: Matthew 18:17. bb. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth; collectively, all who worship and honor God and Christ in whatever place they may be: Matthew 16:18 (where perhaps the Evangelist employs τήν ἐκκλησίαν although Christ may have said τήν βασιλείαν μου); 1 Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 1:22; Ephesians 3:10; Ephesians 5:23ff,27,29,32; Philippians 3:6; Colossians 1:18, 24; with the genitive of the possessor: τοῦ κυρίου, Acts 20:28 (R Tr marginal reading WH τοῦ Θεοῦ); τοῦ Θεοῦ, Galatians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 15:9; 1 Timothy 3:15. cc. the name is transferred to the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven: Hebrews 12:23 (on this passage see in ἀπογράφω, b. and πρωτότοκος, at the end). (In general, see Trench, § 1, and B. D. under the word , especially American edition; and for patristic usage Sophocles Lexicon, under the word.
• a synagogue
1. an assembly of Jews formally gathered together to offer prayers and listen to the reading and expositions of the scriptures; assemblies of that sort were held every sabbath and feast day, afterwards also on the second and fifth days of every week; name transferred to an assembly of Christians formally gathered together for religious purposes
2. the buildings where those solemn Jewish assemblies are held. Synagogues seem to date their origin from the Babylonian exile. In the times of Jesus and the apostles every town, not only in Palestine, but also among the Gentiles if it contained a considerable number of Jewish inhabitants, had at least one synagogue, the larger towns several or even many. These were also used for trials and inflicting punishment.
. a synagogue, i. e., a. "an assembly of Jews formally gathered together to offer prayer and listen to the reading and exposition of the Holy Scriptures"; assemblies of the sort were held every sabbath and feast-day, afterward also on the second and fifth days of every week (see references below): Luke 12:11; Acts 9:2; Acts 13:43; Acts 26:11; the name is transferred to an assembly of Christians formally gathered for religious purposes, James 2:2 (Epiphanius haer. 30, 18 says of the Jewish Christians συναγωγήν οὗτοι καλουσι τήν ἑαυτῶν ἐκκλησίαν καί οὐχί ἐκκλησίαν (cf. Lightfoot on Philippians, p. 192)); (cf. Trench, Synonyms, § 1, and especially Harnack's elaborate note on Hermas, mand. 11, 9 [ET] (less fully and accurately in Hilgenfeld's Zeitschr. f. wiss. Theol. for 1876, p. 102ff) respecting the use of the word by the church Fathers of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries; cf. Hilgenfeld's comments on the same in his 'Hermae Pastor', edition alt., p. 183f).
b. the building where those solemn Jewish assemblies are held (Hebrew הַכְּנֶסֶת בֵּית, i. e. 'the house of assembly'). Synagogues seem to date their origin from the Babylonian exile. In the time of Jesus and the apostles every town, not only in Palestine but also among the Gentiles if it contained a considerable number of Jewish inhabitants, had at least one synagogue, the larger towns several or even many. That the Jews held trials and even inflicted punishments in them, is evident from such passages as Matthew 10:17; Matthew 23:34; Mark 13:9; Luke 12:11; Luke 21:12; Acts 9:2; Acts 22:19; Acts 26:11. They are further mentioned in Matthew 4:23; Matthew 6:2, 5; Matthew 9:35; Matthew 12:9; Matthew 13:54; Matthew 23:6; Mark 1:21, 23, 29, 39; Mark 3:1; Mark 6:2; Mark 12:39; Luke 4:15f, 20, 28, 33, 38, 44; Luke 6:6; Luke 7:5; Luke 8:41; (Luke 11:43); Luke 13:10; 20:46; John 6:59; John 18:20 (here the anarthrous (so G L T Tr WH) singular has an indefinite or generic force (R. V. text in synagogues)); Acts 6:9; Acts 9:20; Acts 13:5, 14, 42 Rec.; Acts 14:1; 15:21; 17:1,10,17; 18:4,7,19,26; 19:8; 24:12; 26:11 (Josephus, Antiquities 19, 6, 3; b. j. 2, 14, 4. (5; 7, 3, 8; Philo, qued omn. prob. book § 12)). Cf. Winers RWB, under the word Synagogen; Leyrer in Herzog edition 1, xv., p. 299ff; Schürer, N. T. Zeitgesch. § 27 (especially ii.); Kneucker in Schenkel v., p. 443f; (Hamburger, Real-Encycl. ii, p. 1142ff; Ginsburg in Alex.'s Kitto, under the word Synagogue; Edersheim, Jesus the Messiah, book iii, chapter x.).
Like synagogue are different word than congregation. They have different meanings in the text synagoge and ekklesia in greek text. How they can be sect of notsrim because in the book of Galatians. It says
Gal 5:
19 Now the practices of the sinful nature are clearly evident: they are sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality (total irresponsibility, lack of self-control), 20 idolatry, [c]sorcery, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions [that promote heresies],
There is this greek word hairesis and it speaks about sects as well that we should be divided like in different sects or groups but just being in ONE in Christ and His congregation, which is divided according to it’s places
I am just thinking that church and synagogue was different thing. Paul went to share the gospel in synagogues and attended there in the acts. But through new testament they were gathered in the churches.
They were
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Post by alon on May 4, 2018 3:46:44 GMT -8
Remember that Thayers is a Christian book. Its authors are steeped in Christian theology, as are most of the reference books we use. So while they can be extremely helpful, they can also be very misleading. You have to use a lot of discernment when using reference texts.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 139: αἵρεσις haíresis
1. (from αἱρέω), act of taking, capture: τῆς πόλεως, the storming of a city; in secular authors.
2. (from ἁιρέομαι), choosing, choice, very often in secular writings: the Sept. Leviticus 22:18; 1 Macc. 8:30.
3. that which is chosen, a chosen course of thought and action; hence one's chosen opinion, tenet; according to the context, an opinion varying from the true exposition of the Christian faith (heresy): 2 Peter 2:1 (cf. DeWette at the passage), and in ecclesiastical writings (cf. Sophocles' Lexicon, under the word).
4. a body of men separating themselves from others and following their own tenets (a sect or party): as the Sadducees, Acts 5:17; the Pharisees, Acts 15:5; Acts 26:5; the Christians, Acts 24:5, 14 (in both instances with a suggestion of reproach); Acts 28:22 (in Diogenes Laërtius 1 (13) 18f, others, used of the schools of philosophy).
5. dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims: Galatians 5:20; 1 Corinthians 11:19. (Cf. Meyer, at the passages cited; B. D. American edition under the word ; Burton, Bampt. Lect. for 1829; Campbell, Diss. on the Gospels, diss. iv., part iv.)
#3 above shows that the writer here is Christian; believing in the teachings of the church that in the NT something "new" was made: the church. But it was not. The church did not exist even in its beginning phase until the 2nd cen CE. Marcion, arguably the 1st church father (even though he was later excommunicated) was still a young man at the end of the 1st cen.
In the 1st cen CE, the Nots’rim were drawing Jews from every sect. Judaism in the 1st cen was not unified. There were many sects competing for political power and spiritual influence. Some however withdrew from even Jewish society. When these people joined the Nots’rim, they brought all those different ideas with them, and it caused a lot of dissension.
And people being people, there were also those who could not overcome the lusts of the flesh. Those people always want to tempt others to participate in their sin, so Rav Shaul (Paul) spoke against them in your passage as well:
Galatians 5:19-20 (KJV) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
But none of this really addresses the issue of synagogue vs. church in our Bibles. Again, we must realize that almost all our translations are from Christian sources. So they use the terms as they were taught in church and in Bible college. But since our source documents for the NT are Greek, let’s use the Septuagint OT translation and compare:
G1577 ἐκκλησία ekklēsia ek-klay-see'-ah From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
In the Septuagint the Hebrew words atsar, kahal and edah are translated as ekklesia, all meaning “assembly.” So why translate this correctly into English in the TNK (OT) and then use the word “church” in their so called “New Testament?” The only reason for this is to lie to us and say there is something “New.” They want us to believe God did not renew His covenant with Israel; that He changed (even though He said he does not change) and now the Gentiles are His chosen, the inheritors of the covenant. The church is deceiving themselves. Unless you are grafted into Israel, as Rav Sha’ul said, you aren’t even saved. Believing a lie does not make you right with God.
A covenant, once made can only be added to, not changed and portions deleted. And it cannot be transferred except to the next living relative in case the original party t the covenant dies; and then only if it is agreed on by both parties. That is why the church calls the Gospels and the writings of the Apostles a "New Testament." A testament is a legal document which can be changed either by agreement or unilaterally in many cases. It can also be altered or nullified by a court or other authority. So this left the church fathrs to make their own "new" religion, changing much of what God laid out for us and calling the rest nullified; "fulfilled."
There are pages of references to a search for the word “assembly,” translated “ekklesia” in the LXX. Yet only five times is it correctly translated as assembly in the “New Testament.” Most of the time they translate it as church. However historically there were no churches until the second century CE. The writings of the church fathers bears this out. The early believers worshiped in synagogues. They were all Jews and proselytes to the Nots’rim (Nazarine) sect of Judaism.
Act 24:5 (KJV) For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:
Rav Sha’ul (Paul) was a ‘ringleader’ of a sect Jews called Nots’rim (Nazarines); NOT of a church. And he may have witnessed to Gentiles when the occasion arose, but he never attended church. If you read closely, that is not supported by scripture; just by the translators.
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on May 4, 2018 3:50:13 GMT -8
The biggest reason for denominations is Hermeneutics. Hermeneutics is the use of the Greek god Hermes' methods to interpret the Bible. That will always result in bad outcomes.
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Post by jedidja87 on Jul 30, 2018 11:39:43 GMT -8
I don't get it so much of the text. Like these manuscripts byzantine texts and textus receptus. It speaks about Ekklesia. In other's words congregation. Of course there was wilderness congregation as well. When Bible speaks about it 1.Cor 10. But it's not Noztrim sect but christians
who follow Jesus Christ. This is what happened in the Acts. It doesn't say in the Acts that Christians were met in syanagogue but in the solomon's
porch, homes, upper room also in home of cornelius in Acts 10.
Paul was going to evangelize there people in synagogues.I prefer myself congregation because congregation means gathering of believers and believers as people but church can be mean church building and that's not ekklesia.
So we should be as one as congregation according to the city. Like not messianic jewish congregation or pentecostal or methodic congregation. But Congregation according to it's place like congregation of ephesus, or congregation of thyatira, or congregation of laodicea and all people should gather in the different assemblies but they are still congregation of Izmir example..
It's quite simple..
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 30, 2018 12:54:07 GMT -8
Some of the issue with the labeling is because there are so many options, and that's because there's such difference. I wish we were so united to do it the way you suggest, but because there are so many differences and much division, people have tried to distinguish themselves with labels. I think maybe it's just a consequence of division.
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Post by alon on Jul 30, 2018 15:26:13 GMT -8
I don't get it so much of the text. Like these manuscripts byzantine texts and textus receptus. It speaks about Ekklesia. In other's words congregation. Of course there was wilderness congregation as well. When Bible speaks about it 1.Cor 10. But it's not Noztrim sect but christians who follow Jesus Christ. This is what happened in the Acts. It doesn't say in the Acts that Christians were met in syanagogue but in the solomon's porch, homes, upper room also in home of cornelius in Acts 10. Paul was going to evangelize there people in synagogues.I prefer myself congregation because congregation means gathering of believers and believers as people but church can be mean church building and that's not ekklesia. So we should be as one as congregation according to the city. Like not messianic jewish congregation or pentecostal or methodic congregation. But Congregation according to it's place like congregation of ephesus, or congregation of thyatira, or congregation of laodicea and all people should gather in the different assemblies but they are still congregation of Izmir example.. It's quite simple.. As your own references say, the word ekklesia can be used secularly or religiously. Any called out gathering is an ekklesia. So a "Christian Church" meeting could be an ekklesia, but ONLY if it occurred some 100 yrs after the last book of the so called " New Testament" was written. Because there were no Christian Churches until then. The first century believers met in synagogues. And yes, they sometimes gathered in homes or other places. But they were Jews and their worship was along the same lines as their fellow Jews. I agree, it should all be one big happy family in the Christ (Christ is a title- Messiah- not a name). Until 135 CE the Notsrim did worship in synagogues with other Jews, as they were thought of as just another sect of Judaism. After that they were blamed for the defeat of Bar Kochba and the rebellion and ostracized by other Jews. However today both Judaism and Christianity have went off the rails, and Messianic Judaism is fractured and plagued by every kind of cult the enemy can raise to fly our banner. I am not willing to sit under false teaching nor endorse false doctrine to make unification happen. Yeshua HaMoshiach will make this happen when He returns. Until then I will not bend my knee at any church alter nor any other place which does not preach the truth. Dan C |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 30, 2018 17:13:41 GMT -8
I don't get it so much of the text. Like these manuscripts byzantine texts and textus receptus. It speaks about Ekklesia. In other's words congregation. Of course there was wilderness congregation as well. When Bible speaks about it 1.Cor 10. But it's not Noztrim sect but christians who follow Jesus Christ. This is what happened in the Acts. It doesn't say in the Acts that Christians were met in syanagogue but in the solomon's porch, homes, upper room also in home of cornelius in Acts 10. Paul was going to evangelize there people in synagogues.I prefer myself congregation because congregation means gathering of believers and believers as people but church can be mean church building and that's not ekklesia. So we should be as one as congregation according to the city. Like not messianic jewish congregation or pentecostal or methodic congregation. But Congregation according to it's place like congregation of ephesus, or congregation of thyatira, or congregation of laodicea and all people should gather in the different assemblies but they are still congregation of Izmir example.. It's quite simple.. As your own references say, the word ekklesia can be used secularly or religiously. Any called out gathering is an ekklesia. So a "Christian Church" meeting could be an ekklesia, but ONLY if it occurred some 100 yrs after the last book of the so called " New Testament" was written. Because there were no Christian Churches until then. The first century believers met in synagogues. And yes, they sometimes gathered in homes or other places. But they were Jews and their worship was along the same lines as their fellow Jews. I agree, it should all be one big happy family in the Christ (Christ is a title- Messiah- not a name). Until 135 CE the Notsrim did worship in synagogues with other Jews, as they were thought of as just another sect of Judaism. After that they were blamed for the defeat of Bar Kochba and the rebellion and ostracized by other Jews. However today both Judaism and Christianity have went off the rails, and Messianic Judaism is fractured and plagued by every kind of cult the enemy can raise to fly our banner. I am not willing to sit under false teaching nor endorse false doctrine to make unification happen. Yeshua HaMoshiach will make this happen when He returns. Until then I will not bend my knee at any church alter nor any other place which does not preach the truth. Dan C Can you talk more about being blamed for the rebellion, and give some context to the rebellion itself please? I have heard about it but don't don't have a firm grasp on what was going on and the logic of blaming believers. |
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Post by alon on Jul 30, 2018 17:51:25 GMT -8
Sure. Simeon Bar Kosba led a Jewish rebellion against Rome in 132 CE. Jews did not feel they could worship properly while occupied by a pagan nation. Further too many Jews were being Hellenized by the Romans. The Jews almost threw the Romans out. Two entire legions were mauled so badly they were deactivated and never reformed. Bur Rabbi Akiva declared Bar K to be the Messiah and changed his name to Bar Kochba, "son of a star." It was commanded that anyone fighting in this revolt had to kneel and declare Bar Kochba to be the Anointed One of Israel. Of course the Notsarim could not do this, so most left. Those that stayed were beaten and some even killed. Since even many Jewish scholars say that upwards of half of Israel had believed in Yeshua and joined the Notsarim this accounted for a huge decline in the fighting force. After this Rome beat down the rebellion in 135 CE. Mainstream Judaism blamed the Notsarim for the loss and would no longer allow them to worship in their synagogues. A curse against the Notsarim was placed in the Amidah, the prayer said three times a day in synagogue. If someone refused to say that part they would be thrown out. It is said that a cantor could mess up on any part of the prayer except this curse. If he even stumbled saying that he might be accused of being Notsarim.
Dan C
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as I don't think it makes me any more or less than I was prior to keeping 
