Hello!

[tampasteve1]

Good day! I found this forum on Google and thought it looked great. I have been on the big Christian Forums board a bit, but the users are mostly not followers of Messianic Judaism. There is probably some overlap on members, I would imagine. My story is quite long, but in brief:

• Christian most of my life
• Converted to the RCC during first marriage
• Started questioning Christianity
• Divorced (infidelity on her part)
• Put religion as a whole on the back burner
• Remarried a Non-denominational Christian
• Started questioning Christianity again after reading and listening to anti-missionary information from Tovia Singer
• Started conversion to Judaism
• My wife helped me find more anti-anti-missionary information to help rebut some of the arguments of Tovia Singer
• Found Messianic Judaism through FFOZ 
• Self identifying as a Messianic Judaism follower
• Which brings us to today

I still struggle with some Christian doctrine and find some of Tovia's arguments valid of mainstream Christianity, but I am working through it and websites like this are helpful. 

[alon]

Happy to have you here! Sounds like an interesting journey into the truth.

Some of Tovia Singers (and other anti-Missionaries) stuff can be more easily refuted the more you learn in Messianism. Some is still valid, but as you say more against Christianity. However you'll find the anti-missionaries hate MJ more than Christianity; though they insist on pigeonholing us with Christians.

FFOZ is Two , so while they have some good information on their site you have to be careful of false doctrine there. But you'll find that most of those in MJ who want to sell you something are Two because it is an easier sell to the Gentiles coming in than a One doctrine. 

But there is a LOT of good information here in the older posts. You can revive any of those you want to talk about. And of course if you don't find it there you can always create a new thread. We try to keep topics organized so that it is easier to find what you want. And we try to keep it a safe place for people to learn about Messianic Judaism.

We've had anti-missionaries come here, but they don't last long once they become active in trying to harass posters or pull people away. We get all kinds too: Christians wanting to save us from "heresies," other types of MJ or HR, atheists, etc. Most are weeded out in the vetting process (the questions I ask before coming on the forum). But we've had a few lie and get in. The thing is if they are honest I tell them I'll ok their membership here, but I warn them they can only ask questions. They cannot teach. So they don't have to lie about who they are to get on; just agree to the rules. Most don't. I think the last one was a Muslim who we talked to, but he couldn't stand it long and had to start calling people names and proclaiming the superiority if the Q'oran. That was the end of his tenure. But that was quite a while ago. Like I said, this is a pretty safe place to come to learn.

Speaking of learning, we are all still doing that, including me. If you wonder about something I say or think I'm wrong, don't hesitate to ask or give your view. Whatever any of us puts up here can be challenged, disputed, or added to by anyone. And their posts can similarly be challenged. It's how we learn. 

Anyhow, I look forward to talking with you.

Dan C

[tampasteve1]

Thanks for the welcome! I will be sure to comb through the information on the site, there certainly is a lot.

Would you mind briefly explaining Two ? I am not familiar with the term. Is it the same as Two House? I will keep an eye out, are there particular authors that you would advise against from FFOZ? I was introduced to their literature via Beth Immanuel, their audio series "26 answers to 26 reasons" (a rebuttal to anti-missionary information) was instrumental in my holding off conversion to Judaism.

[tampasteve1]

Also, I keep looking but am having a hard time finding where I should place (or read on) a question about the nature of Yeshua?

[alon]

Jan 3, 2018 4:46:08 GMT -8 tampasteve1 said:

Would you mind briefly explaining Two ? I am not familiar with the term. Is it the same as Two House? 

Two House- after the split of Israel from Judah, Israel was taken into captivity by the Assyrians and dispersed from their lands. They never returned. Judah, taken by Babylon did return. Two House believers are obsessed with finding those lost tribes of the House of Israel. Mostly they are obsessed with finding out they are part of those tribes. It leads to all kinds of craziness. I was once told I was part of the tribe of Dan because my name is Dan, so I could be part of a tribe of Danes because Dane, Dan; it just made sense that the tribe of Dan went to Denmark. And since the Danes later ent Viking they were scattered all over the world. Convenient, to say the least. And pretty crazy.

Two - often found side by side with Two House, but very popular among anyone wanting the blessings but thinking the "Law" to be a curse (in other words they don't want to do what God told us to). This theology says there is one law for the Jews and another for Gentiles; even those converting to Messianic Judaism. The Jews are almost universally proponents of this, since they claim to be their inheritance and pecularly Jewish. And they do not think Messianics are Jews in any sense of the word. It's also a very popular theory with people or organizations wanting to sell you their books or educational materials or courses since the market for this doctrine is far larger than for One theology. People coming out of Christianity tend to still look at as a curse, something to be feared, and so they are easily ensnared by this doctrine.

Matthew 5:19 (ESV) Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

It is called Messianic JUDAISM for a reason though. The apostles and the sect of the Nots'rim were all Jews and proselytes to Judaism. And that is what w are as Messianics is proselytes to the sect of the Nots'rim, or Nazarines.

I will keep an eye out, are there particular authors that you would advise against from FFOZ? I was introduced to their literature via Beth Immanuel, their audio series "26 answers to 26 reasons" (a rebuttal to anti-missionary information) was instrumental in my holding off conversion to Judaism.

My familiarity with FFOZ is through the internet a few years back. I was thinking about taking some of their courses online. But I was a bit skeptical, so I called and asked them. Their literature never mentioned it, but they confirmed on the phone to me that they are Two House. 

My advice is before you buy books from anyone, check the book and the author out thoroughly. I started a Baptist then went into Hebrew Roots, so I had a LOT of books that were so bad I threw them out. I probably had three to five books hit the garbage for every one I've kept. And I did keep some from both those beliefs; but I use them with a LOT of discernment. There's a lot to occupy you here though, and it is free, with the added bonus you can revive the thread and discuss it further.

Dan C

[alon]

Jan 3, 2018 6:14:12 GMT -8 tampasteve1 said:

Also, I keep looking but am having a hard time finding where I should place (or read on) a question about the nature of Yeshua?

Here are a couple of threads that contain some good information on the nature of Yeshua:

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/119/false-gospel

The next one is QUestor and me. Both of us can be a bit verbose, but we managed to contain ourselves somewhat better here. 

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/4166/who

At any rate, t will take some digging but there is some really good info on what you are looking for in those posts.

Dan C

edit: If your question can be tied to a specific scripture then post in the section where that scripture would be found. If it has to do with salvation, then "Yeshua (Salvation) would be where you want to go. If just a general question about His nature then "Thoughts" would be a good place to post the question.

[Elizabeth]

Welcome and thanks for joining.

[Questor]

Jan 3, 2018 7:07:37 GMT -8 alon said:

Jan 3, 2018 6:14:12 GMT -8 tampasteve1 said:

Also, I keep looking but am having a hard time finding where I should place (or read on) a question about the nature of Yeshua?

Here are a couple of threads that contain some good information on the nature of Yeshua:

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/119/false-gospel

The next one is Questor and me. Both of us can be a bit verbose, but we managed to contain ourselves somewhat better here. 

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/4166/who

At any rate, t will take some digging but there is some really good info on what you are looking for in those posts.

Dan C

Verbose? You? Me? What NONSENSE!  Neither of us ever waste a word! 

[Questor]

Jan 2, 2018 14:00:48 GMT -8 tampasteve1 said:

Good day! I found this forum on Google and thought it looked great. I have been on the big Christian Forums board a bit, but the users are mostly not followers of Messianic Judaism. There is probably some overlap on members, I would imagine. My story is quite long, but in brief:

• Christian most of my life
• Converted to the RCC during first marriage
• Started questioning Christianity
• Divorced (infidelity on her part)
• Put religion as a whole on the back burner
• Remarried a Non-denominational Christian
• Started questioning Christianity again after reading and listening to anti-missionary information from Tovia Singer
• Started conversion to Judaism
• My wife helped me find more anti-anti-missionary information to help rebut some of the arguments of Tovia Singer
• Found Messianic Judaism through FFOZ 
• Self identifying as a Messianic Judaism follower
• Which brings us to today

I still struggle with some Christian doctrine and find some of Tovia's arguments valid of mainstream Christianity, but I am working through it and websites like this are helpful. 

Well, Rav Singer is passionate about not having all that silly Christian belief about, confusing people.  And, he has a point...it does confuse people because it is only half of the picture that the totality of the scriptures present, and most Jews are quite open about the fact that they have not looked at both sides of the question as a unified whole. Alas, Orthodox Judaism alone doesn't hit the nail on the head either since it is running from the Messiah so plainly evident in the .

One hopes we can all find the point where Yeshua shines brilliantly through every word that references him, no matter how slight, and leave the argumentation about how things have been messed up by others in the past to the history books, while we study all of the Scriptures...what is termed old, and what is termed new...and apply them to our lives.

[tampasteve1]

Thanks for the welcomes everyone, I am sure I will chime in on some threads as I go through them.