Post by alon on Sept 25, 2017 16:04:24 GMT -8
I was recently asked:
I have the additional books of the Ethiopian Bible, including Jublees. And we as Meshiachim do look to other books for instruction or clarification. However here I find it contradictory to
, which is our baseline for the validity of all books that would be considered scripture or even just instructive:
Jubilees 50:12 And every man who does any work thereon, or goes a journey, or tills (his) farm, whether in his house or any other place, and whoever lights a fire, or rides on any beast, or travels by ship on the sea, and whoever strikes or kills anything, or slaughters a beast or a bird, or whoever catches an animal or a bird or a fish, or whoever fasts or makes war on the Sabbaths:
Leviticus 16:29-31 (ESV) “And it shall be a statute to you forever that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict yourselves and shall do no work, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you. For on this day shall atonement be made for you to cleanse you. You shall be clean before the Lord from all your sins. It is a Sabbath of solemn rest to you, and you shall afflict yourselves; it is a statute forever.
So Jub 50:12 says not to fast, while Lev 16:29 & 31 says we are to "afflict ourselves," a Hebraic metaphor for fasting. I have to go with unless there is evidence that is not what is being said.
Whether this means to go without water or bathing is somewhat open to interpretation. Here I just go with our Halacha, which is we may drink and bathe. Same with travel. Being Gentile converts who are scattered all over several counties, it would be impossible to congregate if we don't drive. Our Halacha is we can drive for the purposes of meeting as a body. So I do; and will.
One of the things I have recently learned about Talmud is that far from being a place of stringent rules laid down by men to control others, it is where the minutia of Halacha is supposed to be addressed. It takes into account the varying times, dates and circumstances that people may find themselves in; and it provides a place where the rules may be changed or varied to account for this. That's why Moshe Rabeinu was given the written and the Oral . Frankly, the details described in Jubilees would better have been dealt with as Halacha for a specific sect; in the Oral (Mishna). That they were not, and that they contradict both causes me to distrust the Book of Jubilees.
I think you are right if this was written by either the Essenes or any of the other radicalized sects that flourished in the 100 yrs before and after Yeshua. And while I'm not that familiar with 119 Ministries, I agree with what you say they believe here. And I believe the higher mitzvah here between not fasting on Shabbat and fasting on Yom Kippur is that we keep the fast on Yom Kippur.
There's a principle I go by, and tell others too: don't make this any more difficult than it is. Not that it's too difficult to obey. But too often men did make it difficult; whether in the religious writings of their sects or in writings that crossed sectarian lines like the Talmud. I have enough trouble with the basics, let alone reading Jubilees and trying to keep what they say!
So I don't ...
Dan C
So are we fasting Yom Kippur or on the following day in keeping with Jubilees 50:12?
I have the additional books of the Ethiopian Bible, including Jublees. And we as Meshiachim do look to other books for instruction or clarification. However here I find it contradictory to
, which is our baseline for the validity of all books that would be considered scripture or even just instructive:Jubilees 50:12 And every man who does any work thereon, or goes a journey, or tills (his) farm, whether in his house or any other place, and whoever lights a fire, or rides on any beast, or travels by ship on the sea, and whoever strikes or kills anything, or slaughters a beast or a bird, or whoever catches an animal or a bird or a fish, or whoever fasts or makes war on the Sabbaths:
Leviticus 16:29-31 (ESV) “And it shall be a statute to you forever that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict yourselves and shall do no work, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you. For on this day shall atonement be made for you to cleanse you. You shall be clean before the Lord from all your sins. It is a Sabbath of solemn rest to you, and you shall afflict yourselves; it is a statute forever.
So Jub 50:12 says not to fast, while Lev 16:29 & 31 says we are to "afflict ourselves," a Hebraic metaphor for fasting. I have to go with
unless there is evidence that is not what is being said. Whether this means to go without water or bathing is somewhat open to interpretation. Here I just go with our Halacha, which is we may drink and bathe. Same with travel. Being Gentile converts who are scattered all over several counties, it would be impossible to congregate if we don't drive. Our Halacha is we can drive for the purposes of meeting as a body. So I do; and will.
One of the things I have recently learned about Talmud is that far from being a place of stringent rules laid down by men to control others, it is where the minutia of Halacha is supposed to be addressed. It takes into account the varying times, dates and circumstances that people may find themselves in; and it provides a place where the rules may be changed or varied to account for this. That's why Moshe Rabeinu was given the written
and the Oral . Frankly, the details described in Jubilees would better have been dealt with as Halacha for a specific sect; in the Oral (Mishna). That they were not, and that they contradict both causes me to distrust the Book of Jubilees.Some in Israel, when Yom Kippur falls on Shabbat, fast the next day. 119 ministries also feels this book has something to offer , but when it adds to they find it to be untrustworthy. I want to find out what the authorship was. If it was the Essenes, which is doubtful, then I would almost bet it was added to.
they find it to be untrustworthy. I want to find out what the authorship was. If it was the Essenes, which is doubtful, then I would almost bet it was added to.I think you are right if this was written by either the Essenes or any of the other radicalized sects that flourished in the 100 yrs before and after Yeshua. And while I'm not that familiar with 119 Ministries, I agree with what you say they believe here. And I believe the higher mitzvah here between not fasting on Shabbat and fasting on Yom Kippur is that we keep the fast on Yom Kippur.
There's a principle I go by, and tell others too: don't make this any more difficult than it is. Not that it's too difficult to obey
. But too often men did make it difficult; whether in the religious writings of their sects or in writings that crossed sectarian lines like the Talmud. I have enough trouble with the basics, let alone reading Jubilees and trying to keep what they say! So I don't ...
Dan C
