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Post by tzephanyahu on Aug 9, 2017 3:59:21 GMT -8
Hello again,
Another question that has been with me for a long time... Is there no longer any prophecy in the body of Messiah?
As far as I know and have experienced, people do indeed give prophecies, but preceed it something like "The Lord says...". However, every prophet it the bible use the personal name of our Elohim when giving prophecy.
Therefore, surely we can assume if "the Lord says/will.." is used that this is not from our Elohim, who always identified himself by name. Ad if that is true, is there anyone giving prophecy in His name? I have not found any but it's also not that easy to find online!
Thank you and Shalom.
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Post by alon on Aug 9, 2017 8:56:01 GMT -8
... Is there no longer any prophecy in the body of Messiah? As far as I know and have experienced, people do indeed give prophecies, but preceed it something like "The Lord says...". However, every prophet it the bible use the personal name of our Elohim when giving prophecy. Therefore, surely we can assume if "the Lord says/will.." is used that this is not from our Elohim, who always identified himself by name. Ad if that is true, is there anyone giving prophecy in His name? I have not found any but it's also not that easy to find online!
Acts 2:17 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:These verses refer to the end times. But they are taken by many cult leaders as well as Pentecostal Christians as license to "give a word of prophecy" whenever they "feel the Spirit upon them." So no, prophecy is not dead; it will occur again according to scripture. But what we see today is not prophecy. People may genuinely think what they are doing is prophetic. But just because you feel strongly enough about something to stand up in church and speak out does not mean it is either prophecy or that it's from God. Others seek attention or to promote an agenda. Then there are those who would profit from their prophecies. Those are the ones you will most likely find on TV or the internet. Cult leaders both push an agenda and profit, but still are in a class all their own. None are true prophets of God; though some may be influenced by demons. Several times we've had people come on this forum and seek to be acknowledged as a prophet. Every time their reason was it is easier to "prophesy" than it is to study the Word. There may have been more to their motives, but they didn't last long enough to find out. I didn't outright ban them; I simply pointed out that the mark of a prophet of The Most High is absolute, 100% accuracy. After which I pointed out everywhere what they said contradicted or conflicted with scripture. They kind of self-moderated and left. I will tell you that anyone here can be wrong. It is your responsibility and mine to check what anyone says and, if you think they are wrong to bring it up for discussion. Don't just leave false doctrine out there unchallenged. And ALWAYS question prophecy! Check it against the word of God. Check the so called "prophet's" track record. And if you feel a check in your spirit about the prophet, pay attention to it. What he's saying may be true, but that doesn't mean it is prophetic. The best lies are hidden in a lot of truth. He may be setting you up so that you accept his word, then lull you into complacency so he can later lead you down the garden path to Hell. So no, prophecy isn't dead. Elohim can raise up prophets any time. But when He does the counterfeits we have today will look insanely foolish next to the real thing. The charlatans will be condemned. And the cult leaders will be called out just as Elijah did with the prophets of Ba'al. That's no prophecy, by the way. Just an informed opinion. Read about the real deal in scripture, then compare them to what you see today, just as it seems you are doing now. The contrast is clear, and all modern day prophets stand condemned by comparison. Dan C |
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Post by tzephanyahu on Aug 9, 2017 13:54:42 GMT -8
Thanks for the reply, it was interesting to read that you have had "prophets" come into the forum.
So would you agree that if a prophet does not prophesy in the personal name of our Elohim, that they can be instantly written off? Now, that's now to say that everyone prophesying in the name is true, but surely those that do not prophesy in His name are false?
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Post by jimmie on Aug 9, 2017 14:54:48 GMT -8
Therefore, surely we can assume if "the Lord says/will.." is used that this is not from our Elohim, who always identified himself by name. I don't quite understand why the use of the term "The LORD", by Christians, is frowned upon by Messianics. When Jews encounter the Personal Name of God in Scriptures, do they not pronounce it “Adonai” or “My LORD.” Christians are just following a tradition of the Jews, though it is through ignorance that they do so. I think, if you follow your guide lines for determining a false prophet, you run the risk of what the followers of Christ did in Mark 9: 38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part. 41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. |
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Post by alon on Aug 9, 2017 15:08:26 GMT -8
So would you agree that if a prophet does not prophesy in the personal name of our Elohim, that they can be instantly written off? Now, that's now to say that everyone prophesying in the name is true, but surely those that do not prophesy in His name are false? While there is always some indication a prophecy is from Elohim, it isn't always absolutely stated that is the case. The best example I can think of is in Genesis 48 and 49 where several prophecies are made concerning the 12 Tribes of Israel. Jacob is blessing his sons as well as Joseph's sons; boys who would father nations (or tribes). And while he invokes the Almighty there is no indication that he said the blessings were prophecies of God. It's obvious they are, just no statement to that effect. The blessing starts: Genesis 48:14-16 (ESV) And Israel stretched out his right hand and laid it on the head of Ephraim, who was the younger, and his left hand on the head of Manasseh, crossing his hands (for Manasseh was the firstborn). And he blessed Joseph and said,
“The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,
the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day,
the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the boys;
and in them let my name be carried on, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;
and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.”However earlier there was reference that he had previously heard a prophecy from El Shaddai: Genesis 48:3-4 (ESV) And Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty [El Shaddai] appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me, and said to me, ‘Behold, I will make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will make of you a company of peoples and will give this land to your offspring after you for an everlasting possession.’Whether this indicates that God had told Ya'akov all the things in the blessing or not is debatable. But it doesn't say He did. Still, I would say it is obvious the blessing was prophetic and that it was from Elohim; both because of the earlier statement and because he invoked the name of the Most High when he made the prophetic blessing. So as long as you are not saying a prophecy has to say "This is from God" I'd agree. There will be an indication of some sort. The Malach (messenger/angel) who appeared to Daniel relayed the fact he was sent from God but delayed, so whatever he said from then on is taken as prophecy direct from the Throne. Yeshua told of things to come, but I think we all can agree He had no need to say "This prophecy is from the Father." He said it- it will come to pass. Simple syllogism, no embellishment required. Dan C |
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Post by alon on Aug 9, 2017 15:26:02 GMT -8
Therefore, surely we can assume if "the Lord says/will.." is used that this is not from our Elohim, who always identified himself by name. I don't quite understand why the use of the term "The LORD", by Christians, is frowned upon by Messianics. When Jews encounter the Personal Name of God in Scriptures, do they not pronounce it “Adonai” or “My LORD.” Christians are just following a tradition of the Jews, though it is through ignorance that they do so. I think, if you follow your guide lines for determining a false prophet, you run the risk of what the followers of Christ did in Mark 9: 38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part. 41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. I can't speak for anyone else, but as long as the term is used respectfully I have no problem with it. I know some who do not like the name "Jesus" because it has been through the mill from Hebrew to Greek to Germanic tongues to English. They say you might as well be talking about Bill or George. I say it is a name that is used by millions to refer to Yeshua, and so must also be accorded the respect you'd give if He were standing in front of you. I like your scriptural reference there. I, like many (most) Messianics went through a prolonged period where I was angry at all the lies I'd been told in church. And I held a dim view of Christians. But the fact is Christianity evangelized the world. It also is where I first learned of God. I learned a lot of things wrong, but still. And I was once deceived as they are now. So why should I despise them? And I still say I know Christians who have a better walk with God than I do. And that is what this is all about. Will they make it to heaven? I think so. Will they suffer loss for their errors? Yes. But that is  . I don't wish it on them. But I offer to tell them, they listen or they don't, and it is all between them and God then. But they will still be rewarded. "Forbid him not" sounds to me like a command. So I try to attenuate my instinct to slash and destroy Christians. If you read some of my earlier posts from when I first joined here you'll see what I mean. LOL, I am guessing you remember! Dan (opinionated, ornery, and offle sometimes) C |
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Post by tzephanyahu on Aug 9, 2017 23:32:04 GMT -8
Thank you for your replies, they make sense to me. So, I suppose no one knows of a prophet who speaks in the authority of the name today?
If not, i wonder why and when that stopped after the first century?
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Post by alon on Aug 10, 2017 0:17:45 GMT -8
Thank you for your replies, they make sense to me. So, I suppose no one knows of a prophet who speaks in the authority of the name today? If not, i wonder why and when that stopped after the first century? That's a good question. Being raised Baptist, I have always heard that it is because it was no longer needed. Prophecies and miracles validated the Apostles as being sent in God's name. The prophecies also rounded out the New Testament, giving us all we'd need. When their usefulness for these things were done, so were they. Rav S (my Rabbi) posits another reason. There is just no one today who walks as close to Elohe Yeshuathi (God of My Salvation) as those men who walked with and suffered with and for Yeshua; or of their predecessors, the prophets of the TNK. I mean, these were some powerful men of Adonai! They faced crowds, false priests, kings, even their own people and told the truth! And nothing in history has gotten as many men killed as the truth. Wars are fought to hide it. Men are hunted and killed for having it, even today in secular circles. Yet they held tightly to and spoke the truth in spite of the risks. And many paid the price with a horrible death. Could you stand being crucified upside down? Would you want your head served up to an evil pagan queen on a platter? Would you be able to stand your ground before the prophets of Ba'al and all Yisroel? I think I might have hid in that cave BEFORE the big showdown! It was after the first century that Israel was scattered, and along with them the Nots'rim (early Messianics). The Christian Church was being born and, even in its infancy gaining power. The Nots'rim, who held the truth, were hated by both unsaved Jews and by Christians. And they held onto the truth, even to martyrdom in many cases. Is it possible some of them prophesied and we never heard of it because the church hid the evidence? Yes, I suppose it is. But it is pointless to speculate because we have no evidence it ever happened. Will we ever hear prophecies from men of El-Olam (Everlasting God)? If you live to the end times, yes. But remember, the enemy will have his counterfeits who can "fool even the elect" in that time as well. So test the spirits, and make sure you are listening to the right Spirit. Dan C |
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- there are 70 faces to 
. I don't wish it on them. But I offer to tell them, they listen or they don't, and it is all between them and God then. But they will still be rewarded. 
