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Post by Questor on Mar 4, 2017 23:51:41 GMT -8
Two different churches, and two different mindsets pretty much is two different Messianic Churches.
I was looking at a study of the 7 Churches...both from a consecutive treatment of church types over the centuries...noting at once that all 7 Church Types exist at all times...but I was curious about it from a personal point of view.
What does a Laodiceaen actually do, or rather not do, and what does a Philadelphian Believer do, or not do?
I have been noticing the insane amount of tolerance there is for what is really sin in society...commonly sinful, blatantly sinful, and having been challenged to get upset over sin, or fight against sin...isn't the not fighting sin...not speaking up about what is wrong Laodicaean automatically?
And if so, what about our so called 'love' for everyone that is getting everyone bent in a lot of weird directions? I understand loving the sinner and hating the sin, but how noisy am I supposed to be when no one is interested in the topic?
I have always been tolerant, because once raised in California, you are, almost without fail, and hardly notice it. In my case, I am also libertarian, letting people go to hell their own way because I can't stop them. And I can't yell at people, because I have no standing...you need to be a celebrity to get anyone to listen, and then you need to be 'really cool'. Thus, I write, in case anyone is interested, but I have a feeling not too many people are going to be.
I turned off my TV, and only watch old TV series and old movies without commercials from Netflix...when I actually find the time. I mostly collect them against gray days with no one interesting to listen to, or just self indulgence after too much studying. But on the news, on the web, I watched some amazingly gay guy being interviewed as if his viewpoint on politics mattered, and then thought, wow, I hadn't noticed how bad it is out there because I avoid so much of it.
I actually read three reviews of the top films out...the two up for best picture, and something else, and was appalled at the lack of story along with the 'La la la la la la, live for today' existence mixed with sinful lifestyles being celebrated in a soulful and important manner.
Not that I don't live for today, but in a different way. We only have today, but we are supposed to live as if we are going to face judgement any day...right? And plan for a relatively short future! At 61, I don't have goals I can't get done in a year or two. And when young, 5 year goal planning was sufficient for most things, not that I am sure we have 5 years left.
But in avoiding the blase Churchian attitude out there, where it's all 'be nice', and 'just do your own thing quietly in your corner', what are we supposed to do when the swine are stomping on our pearls?
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Post by alon on Mar 5, 2017 14:27:09 GMT -8
"What are we supposed to do when the swine are stomping on our pearls?"Pack them in a crate addressed "To Hezbolah: with love" and ship 'em off? Sorry, couldn't resist. Seriously, what you ask is no small thing. Philadelphia, meaning brotherly love, was the synagogue Yeshua loved. These people were a great witness for the gospel of the Messiah. Yeshua promised to keep these people from the time of trial that was coming to all the earth. So these would seem to be the people we should most emulate. Revelation 3:7-13 is the biblical passage concerning Philadelphia. Laodicea on the other hand is half hearted, lukewarm, thinking they are rich but not realizing how poor they really are. They increased in wealth and influence, but were spiritually bankrupt. They were not at all kadosh, set apart for G-d. They were of the world. Revelation 3:14-22 is the passage dedicated to Laodicea. Yeshua had nothing good to ay about them. The name Laodicea means "people rule." When people rule, there is no room for G-d. As for tolerance, I have no tolerance for doctrines of tolerance. They make a mockery of the word. Notice it is always defined as not questioning evil; perversions, injustices to worthy people, and more worldly government. But ask for tolerance for the small businessman, the upright, and the precepts laid down in  and you are defined as a bigot! Well, color me bigoted, and proud to be so! The left always wraps their doctrines of tolerance up in "love" to make it more palatable. Love, another word they twist to be a lie. Notice their language and actions are always hateful? They speak of those opposing them in the most vitriolic terms. They riot, assault, rape and murder when they don't get their way. They depict their own country in the most awful light, while upholding places of incalculable evil as paragons of virtue: N Korea and Iran come to mind. They excoriate Israel, probably the most decent government on earth, while supporting those who want nothing more than another Holocaust in the mid-east. These leftist lies come from their father, ha'satan: John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. There is nothing wrong with being liberal. But these extremist liberal doctrines are straight from the pit. Extremism of any stripe polarizes people. And the left in the west has become so drunk with its own successes in the last 70 yrs, the extremists have taken over and drown out the artist, the caregiver, the free thinker, and all that is good in liberalism. We need to bring ourselves back into balance; neither extreme left or right. Only then will we be able to express brotherly love as the synagogue at Philadelphia did. And we will never achieve balance through tolerance. Yeshua never tolerated sin. Why would I want to do so, that I would be loved by the world and spit out like Laodicea? Dan C
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Post by alon on Apr 9, 2017 9:35:59 GMT -8
Well, I have just recently been accused on separate occasions of being a "religious bigot," not understanding all the Abrahamic religions (meaning Islam, which I gave him a concise but thorough lesson on) and denying the Blood of Christ, teaching that Jesus "did not come to save my sins." LOL, I don't think he meant it quite the way it came out, but ya gotta admit; Christians can be fun! I'd have to agree, Yeshua does not save sins, but I am sure he meant save him from his sins- to which I would agree He does just that IF we repent. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to set others straight. A web of lies and false accusations perpetrated on us! But as the Pentacostals would say, "Count it all Glory!"
Dan (ornery enough to tell the truth) C
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Post by Questor on Apr 12, 2017 19:26:38 GMT -8
Well, I have just recently been accused on separate occasions of being a "religious bigot," not understanding all the Abrahamic religions (meaning Islam, which I gave him a concise but thorough lesson on) and denying the Blood of Christ, teaching that Jesus "did not come to save my sins." LOL, I don't think he meant it quite the way it came out, but ya gotta admit; Christians can be fun! I'd have to agree, Yeshua does not save sins, but I am sure he meant save him from his sins- to which I would agree He does just that IF we repent. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to set others straight. A web of lies and false accusations perpetrated on us! But as the Pentacostals would say, "Count it all Glory!" Dan (ornery enough to tell the truth) C
Was the conversation in person, or online?
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Post by Questor on Apr 12, 2017 19:39:39 GMT -8
As for tolerance, I have no tolerance for doctrines of tolerance. They make a mockery of the word. Notice it is always defined as not questioning evil; perversions, injustices to worthy people, and more worldly government. But ask for tolerance for the small businessman, the upright, and the precepts laid down in and you are defined as a bigot! Well, color me bigoted, and proud to be so!
But the lack of discussion of even these points is disappearing. The ability to say anything and everything that you wish to say to someone is of more interest than the wisdom of such freedom of speech. I do not wish to keep anyone from stating their ideas, but I do wish some courtesy would prevail again, and that everyone would be schooled in the same rules of etiquette. |
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Post by alon on Apr 12, 2017 21:53:15 GMT -8
Well, I have just recently been accused on separate occasions of being a "religious bigot," not understanding all the Abrahamic religions (meaning Islam, which I gave him a concise but thorough lesson on) and denying the Blood of Christ, teaching that Jesus "did not come to save my sins." LOL, I don't think he meant it quite the way it came out, but ya gotta admit; Christians can be fun! I'd have to agree, Yeshua does not save sins, but I am sure he meant save him from his sins- to which I would agree He does just that IF we repent. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to set others straight. A web of lies and false accusations perpetrated on us! But as the Pentacostals would say, "Count it all Glory!" Dan (ornery enough to tell the truth) C
Was the conversation in person, or online?
It was more than one conversation, and one was online with a Christian apologist for Islam. He called me a bigot after I said I prayed for the salvation of Muslims, but also prayed against their religion. Since bigotry is expressed against people, and I showed empathy for Muslims by praying for them, I found his remarks both ignorant and themselves bigoted! His professed knowlege f the Quran and the Hadiths was easily exposed as fraudulent, and I schooled him in the history of Islam as well. He called Islam an Abrahamic religion too, so I told him it absolutely was not. It took over the Abrahamic people by force and converted them to Islam by force as well. Probably the worst tho was my brother over the phone, who accused me of things he assumed but I never said. Since I believe in Messianic JUDAISM he assumed I denied the blood of Christ and said I told him Christ never died for his sins. And there were other accusations. None of it true, of course. But once he gets an idea in his head there is no changing it. So I just have to leave him to stew in his anger and move on. I pray for him right before I pray for the Muslims every night.  Dan (danged near ornery as he is) C |
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Post by Questor on Apr 13, 2017 1:07:02 GMT -8
Count it all glory when you are getting beat up for something you neither said nor meant?
Was the conversation in person, or online?
It was more than one conversation, and one was online with a Christian apologist for Islam. He called me a bigot after I said I prayed for the salvation of Muslims, but also prayed against their religion. Since bigotry is expressed against people, and I showed empathy for Muslims by praying for them, I found his remarks both ignorant and themselves bigoted! His professed knowlege f the Quran and the Hadiths was easily exposed as fraudulent, and I schooled him in the history of Islam as well. He called Islam an Abrahamic religion too, so I told him it absolutely was not. It took over the Abrahamic people by force and converted them to Islam by force as well. Probably the worst tho was my brother over the phone, who accused me of things he assumed but I never said. Since I believe in Messianic JUDAISM he assumed I denied the blood of Christ and said I told him Christ never died for his sins. And there were other accusations. None of it true, of course. But once he gets an idea in his head there is no changing it. So I just have to leave him to stew in his anger and move on. I pray for him right before I pray for the Muslims every night. Dan (danged near ornery as he is) C
I will agree with you for a nice vision for the Islamic Apologist! That seems to happen to them a lot!
I am mostly getting the 'I'm not a Jew' reaction to the idea of being something Yeshua desired from us, and then the assumption that I have suddenly become a judaizer. But I also got scolded online on Facebook by a Jewish Christian who was furious at me for not saying I was Jewish, despite being Grafted in and adding on as quickly as I can. Or the 'I don't want more than a 'simple faith' from my Baptist friends. All I can do is not push, and try to walk it out in front of them...which since they are mostly absent now, is hard.
The most I seem able to get out of my mouth in the face of total disinterest is a few words about how good G-d has been to me, and the blank expression defeats me. I have not yet been 'blessed' with angry or completely wrongly taught people. I just remember their personal hashkafah is seriously tilted, and getting a word in is difficult at best.
I have, however, volunteered to join a bible study on prophecy after 'Resurrection Day'...I have yet to receive details, and what I know will probably annoy them if I open my mouth. I am not even sure why I am going, or how I will handle it. I expect to listen a lot, and then return home with a headache, but how else do you see what is going on? |
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- there are 70 faces to 
