Women Pastors

[kepha]

Jul 18, 2016 8:12:47 GMT -8 kepha said:

According to scripture women are not in Avinu's judicial order. Don't get me wrong I am in now way trying to suppress woman or are a sexists, but we say we follow every word of the bible as Elohim's true word.

You can take me as an example, I will never be allowed to become a Pastor or an ordained Elder since I am divorced. A Elder or some one teaching the congregation must be:
1 Tim 3:1 Faithful is the Word: If anyone desires the office of an Elder, he desires a good
work.
1 Tim 3:2 He who becomes an Elder must be blameless, the husband of one wife, alert
mentally, sensible, of good behavior, hospitable, and able to teach;
1 Tim 3:3 not a drunkard, or one whose hand is quick to strike, , but humble, not
contentious, not loving money;
1 Tim 3:4 ruling his own house well, having children in subjection with all purity.
1 Tim 3:5 But if anyone does not know how to rule his own house, how will he care for a
Congregation of YHWH?
1 Tim 3:6 He should not be a new disciple, lest being puffed up he may fall into the
condemnation of the devil.
1 Tim 3:7 But he must also have a good witness from those outside, that he not fall into
reproach and into a snare of the devil.
6
Comment: It is very clear from Scripture that there is judicial order to the elderhood in the body of
Messiah. Someone must be living and adhere to a very strict code of conduct in his life to be considered an
elder in YHWH’s Congregation.
In addition, and of most importance, this is not a position that one chooses for himself, but it is one that
YHWH chooses for him, by inspiration, through the judicial order of His Elderhood, in His Congregation.
Then, the elders would lay hands on the new elder and anoint with oil, for his new given job position.
Elders are not ordained to be served, but to serve (Math 20:25-26). Ordination should never be done
through nepotism (1 Tim 5:21-22), but should merely be an outward expression of a job that someone is
already performing. Moreover, it is clear from YHWH’s judicial order in the family structure that only men
should be ordained elders and not the women in the congregation (1 Tim 2:11-14).

[mystic]

Whoa, that is some news to me but you are correct, I am trying to live by ALL of the bible's rules and not pick and choose what pleases me. Ok so what does that mean for the average Joe like myself, should I not pay attention to any female pastor because I might be participating in sin?

[kepha]

Elohim may use any body to give us a messages I am sure there are a lot of woman on here that could tell you a lot of His will, but (and I hate the word but) to declare a lady as my pastor will be against Elohim's judicial order and His will. Our Father is all about judicial order since the creation look at the order that He created there is a curtain order. Look at His and you see judicial order.

[kepha]

some times I think we must not ask our self if some thing is a sin, rather ask if this is from Elohim or not. Ask better questions and you get better answers from YHWH

[Elizabeth]

I was watching a show on the Amish on PBS. This Amish gentleman made a really good point that stuck with me. He said he asked a group of tourists, and the details here are fuzzy but the message is still there; he asked how many of them thought their family would be better off without a tv. I think almost, if not all of them raised their hand. Then he asked how many of them were going to go home and get rid of their TV. None of them raised their hand. He went on to say that's the difference between our world and the Amish world, if it's bad for the family, they won't have it.

TV most certainly can be a sin. Besides what's on it, TV like so many other screens in our lives these days, is a distraction from truth and reality.

Meanwhile, I learned from this guy and it effected how I choose to live my life by watching TV..... We just have to be very careful about the role we give to anything in our life, and TV just happens to be highly susceptible to sin.

Growing up, my family was old school, we had like three channels and they were for my dad to watch the news. When I went to college and saw what was on basic cable, I was floored. It was shocking. Based on that, I would say if you want to raise the standards for yourself and those in your home, one of the best ways is to get rid of the TV or at least be really selective and limit its role.

As far as women in the body of Messiah go...... G-d knows what He is doing. Honestly, as a mother with traditional values I think there is a lot of common sense in His way because when I try to do His will, I have more than I can handle with family and home. I could go on and on, but when women decided somehow staying at home and being a mother was less than being a "working" man, we kind of shot ourselves in the foot. We could have found another way to ask for more respect than to demean such a G-dly role and dividing ourselves.

Anyway, we have choices, but we also have G-d's guidelines. These guidelines allow us to make sense of the messed up world we live in, make better choices for ourselves, and know how better to serve Him in it. He made us. He knows for what purpose and how. Within His guidelines is a lot of freedom because in them you just have more understanding of who you are and why you are here.

Listen to the rest of the world wonder around in confusion trying to answer that question. What's my passion in life, why am I here, .... It's shocking, when you start paying attention how juvenile and self-indulged some of this evolved, enlightened, progressive spirituality in the absence of G-d gets. They all seem to be trying to find themselves. That's fine till your a grown adult whose got a couple of little ones and a spouse who just need you to be there and show up. 

For us, no one is superior. The servant is as valuable as the served. it is that each role needs to be fulfilled for G-d's purpose to be done. His guidelines help the body of Messiah work together according to His wisdom as the one who made us. Don't get pulled into the cultural idea that any role is superior to the other. In G-d's wisdom and way first shall be last and last shall be first. We are all just here to serve Him and each other; dependent and depended on.

[kepha]

For us, no one is superior. The servant is as valuable as the served. it is that each role needs to be fulfilled for G-d's purpose to be done. His guidelines help the body of Messiah work together according to His wisdom as the one who made us. Don't get pulled into the cultural idea that any role is superior to the other. In G-d's wisdom and way first shall be last and last shall be first. We are all just here to serve Him and each other; dependent and depended on Him and each other to help us grow.

Thank you I did not know how to put it clearly. Each of us has a purpose in His Kingdom and a role and no one purpose is bigger better or more important

Eph 4:11 And indeed He has assigned some to be apostles; and some prophets; and some
evangelists; and some shepherds and teachers;
Eph 4:12 for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the building up of
the body of Messiah,
Eph 4:13 until we all may come to the unity of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son
of Elohim, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Messiah,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, being blown and carried about by every
wind of false doctrine of men, who through their craftiness are very skillful in deceiving
the people;
Eph 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the
Head, the Messiah,

[mystic]

Jul 18, 2016 7:21:56 GMT -8 kepha said:

Speaking of which, a pastor had also told me that fasting can mean abstaining from something you like, like watching TV so she won;t watch TV one day each week.

The first thing wrong here for me is that it is a woman that is a Pastor. Now ladies before you pick up stones to stone me read this, for it is not me that said so.
Can women be ordained Elders (pastor, priest and so on) in the congregation and be under Biblical judicial order?
1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silent in the congregations, for they have no permission
to teach, but to be in subjection, as also the says.
1 Cor 14:35 But if they desire to learn anything, let them question their husbands at home;
for it is a not for a woman to talk in a Congregation.

Well, I certainly am lost at the above info and do not agree with it so I don't know what to do now as Joyce and Gloria are my two favorite ministers and some of their teachings has helped me a great deal.

[kepha]

Like I said it is not me you don't agree with, it is the very word (bible) of Elohim that say this. I can well believe that they could bring you a great deal of help, I also had a lot of ministers and pastors that teachings were so mind blowing and you hanged on to every word they say and you feel the excitement they bring and the answers you get from them helps you so much ...........till one day about a year and a half ago the carpet was taken right from under me. I saw the truth and saw that they are just as deceived as I am. I am not saying they are deceiving people on purpose, it is just that they so believe what they teach, man made doctrines that are not in scripture like Sunday worshiping, Eating of unclean food, Christmas ect the list goes on and on. Oh and the best part the is nailed to the cross.....really?


Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called the devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole inhabitable world was cast out onto the earth, and his cherubs were cast out with him. °


Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, being blown and carried about by every
wind of false doctrine of men, who through their craftiness are very skillful in deceiving
the people;

Now sorry If I offend you, I just can't lie to you telling you how good it is, search the truth and the truth will set you free. B'Shem adon Yeshua HaMessiach.

[alon]

Jul 18, 2016 11:47:33 GMT -8 mystic said:

Jul 18, 2016 7:21:56 GMT -8 kepha said:

Speaking of which, a pastor had also told me that fasting can mean abstaining from something you like, like watching TV so she won;t watch TV one day each week.

The first thing wrong here for me is that it is a woman that is a Pastor. Now ladies before you pick up stones to stone me read this, for it is not me that said so.
Can women be ordained Elders (pastor, priest and so on) in the congregation and be under Biblical judicial order?
1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silent in the congregations, for they have no permission
to teach, but to be in subjection, as also the says.
1 Cor 14:35 But if they desire to learn anything, let them question their husbands at home;
for it is a not for a woman to talk in a Congregation.

Well, I certainly am lost at the above info and do not agree with it so I don't know what to do now as Joyce and Gloria are my two favorite ministers and some of their teachings has helped me a great deal.

kepha and Elizabeth are correct. A woman should not be in authority in a church or a synagogue. More and more churches today are ordaining women as ministers; and if we look at them through scripture they are sliding into apostasy in so many ways. The Baptists and Assemblies of God are nothing like what I grew up with; and the AoG and many Baptist denominations today ordain women. It is because churches have become so apostate that Messianism is growing today, as more and more people see the deception and start to look at alternatives. 

On the other hand, we cannot forget Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Noadiah- all prophetesses called by God. So just because a woman said it doesn't make it wrong. If these women you like to listen to are pastoring churches, I'd say don't listen; because even if they have a lot of good teaching, what other heresies might be in their message which, because they speak well you are less likely to pick up on the lie. And a little leaven leavens the whole lump (Gal 5:9). But if they are just preaching the Word then I'd say listen with a lot of discernment. I'd tell you the same for any televangelist, as they notoriously can be very corrupt. Not all, but most.

And while we are on that subject, stay away from most of the Messianic and Hebrew Roots televangelists too (my advice). TV and now the internet has given more of a voice to ha'satan than to Elohim.

Elizabeth, I got rid of TV before I was married, and my kids were raised without it. They all thanked me for that as adults. When you aren't always deadened by it, the shows are mostly so inane I couldn't watch them when visiting friends. Even sports lost their appeal for the most part.

Dan C

[mystic]

Coming back to the topic of female ministers, I am very cautious of what advice I take from anyone, for that same reason I don't belong to any religion. I was baptized and christened as a toddler by my father in the Presbyterian faith but I never lived that life and now I attend a Catholic church once per week only because Jesus requires us to fellowship and I am still looking for a body of believers locally here where I can fit in with folks who "truly" believes in the bible and not any religion. I guess that is why I tend to gravitate towards those two ministers because they stand on the word and not traditions or man made religions but with this new info and scripture by kepha [thank you], this puts a whole new twist on things.

The confusion for me now is I am sure since these women knows the bible inside out that they are definitely familiar with those scriptures so looks like they are going against the scriptures by becoming ministers. That tells me they have committed sin because the way I see it, if you go against or do the opposite of a scripture then that is committing sin, no so? If that is accurate then what do I do now, by listening to them would I also be indulging in sin? Meaning, if you follow a sinner are you also sinning?

[alon]

Jul 19, 2016 2:49:22 GMT -8 mystic said:

The confusion for me now is I am sure since these women knows the bible inside out that they are definitely familiar with those scriptures so looks like they are going against the scriptures by becoming ministers. That tells me they have committed sin because the way I see it, if you go against or do the opposite of a scripture then that is committing sin, no so? If that is accurate then what do I do now, by listening to them would I also be indulging in sin? Meaning, if you follow a sinner are you also sinning?

The answer to your last question is yes, if you knowingly follow someone who is sinning, then you too are sinning. And if these women are pastors or ministers, then they are in sin.

Dan C

[kepha]

Like Alon said their where woman prophetesses called by El Shaddai, though they were never pastors or Elders of the congregation. In our congregation here in South Africa there are 2 old Savta (grandmothers)like I love to call them, and I tell you now that what they know about the Will of Elohim (, bible) and how to live for Our Father's Kingdom is hard to find. So if one of them do speak to me I make sure I listen to them and understand what they are saying and discerning have never found them to be wrong.
My biggest concern for you is that you have no where else to turn to then to Christianity, I don't know where you live and what is there around you. At least you did come across people on here like Elizaheth and Alon that can give you guidance and help you to get in the truth.

"two ministers because they stand on the word and not traditions or man made religions." do they do sunday worshiping? That is a quick question you have to ask yourself, cause did you know that sunday worshiping comes from a pagan tradition and true believers in the early congregations of the Messiach were killed because they refused to worship on a sunday. It is a sin to worship on a sunday. Now you tell that to a whole world of christians ...... If they worship on a sunday the truth is not in them.
1Jn 2:4 The one saying, I have known Him, and not keeping His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in that one†.

His Commandment is clearly that we must keep Holy (set apart for Him) the Shabbat. Now even today the word Saturday translate into Hebrew as Shabbat.  שבת
Now I know this is a very poor example to proof that Shabbat always was and always will be Saturday. Sunday is the first day of the week, be honest with your self and look at any almanac   and see what day are first (Although I know there are some almanacs today that caught up on this and changed it to monday, ever since the Romance made today's almanac  the seventh day was Saturday). If you want really proof go to the first and oldest nation that kept the Shabbat from the beginning till today, Jews and Isra'el, and you will find that Shabbat is Saturdays and days start from sunset the previous day (that will be know to you as sunset Friday, friday night is actually Saterday night.)

And here we go again ....a new topic LOL

[mystic]

Hmnn, thanks for the explanations, I am guess that is why kepha types "YHWH" for the same reason? Nothing wrong at all showing respect and honoring in this way.

Back to the original topic at hand, yesterday at our appointment Doctor B [my son's Psych] told me he is an Orthodox Rabbi and blindsided me with some info. He said Leviticus 11 was referring ONLY to the Jews so there isn't any unclean meats or any food requirements for Gentiles as far as G-d [thanks Elizabeth ] is concerned, what say you guys?

[kepha]

could he proof it out scripture?

sa_14:1 For YHWH will have pity on Jacob, and will yet choose among Israel, and set them in their own land. And the foreigner shall be joined to them; and they shall cling to the house of Jacob.

Isa_56:6 And the sons of the foreigner, who join themselves to YHWH to serve Him, and to love the name of YHWH, to be His servants, everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, and takes hold of My covenant:

As a true believer you become part of Elohim's chosen people Yisra'el (Jacob)'s sons, by joining His covenant.
As a true believer you must keep the it is part of Elohim's covenant. Yeshua self said to love Him is to obey the , and He was speaking to everybody. What you can start doing to help yourself is get a point from where to start looking at things some one tells you. So with a statement like this, first look at what the say. The say you shall not eat unclean food, not you or the foreigner (gentile) among you. Then ask yourself did El Shaddia change? No He is always the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Now look at the statement that was made. Oh it is not what the Tora say, problem what now? Actually it is very easy, go then and look at the whole context that people base their statements on. Usually they only take one verse that they can turn around to suit them, and make it sound so true. If how ever you go look at that verse and the context it were said in and what is the history around that time it were said you come up with a whole different meaning. for Instance at the time the Apostles wrote their letters and so on, the true believers and Jews did not see unclean meat as food. that is why they did not bother to say that they are only talking about clean food when they wrote to the people. Remember they wrote to people that were taught from child that pork is bad for you and it is disgusting, why would they then eat it now. Yes there were some taking on gentiles rituals of the day, going astray, but mostly they wrote to people that was keeping fast in the believe. As you can see in the Apostles greetings in the beginning of their letters.
There is a reason El Shaddia told us not to eat the unclean food, it is not to test us or make it hard for us on purpose. No, it is for our own good, it is not healthy. Now if was not good for the Yisra'elites, when did it become good for us then to eat?
Now El Shaddia created every thing and He knows what He created so If He say a thing is not good for you.....I tend to listen to that cause He should know He created it.

[kepha]

I am guess that is why kepha types "YHWH" for the same reason? Nothing wrong at all showing respect and honoring in this way.

Nope, the Holy name of Elohim is actually YHWH.  יהוה

It is the name above all names. When i use it, it is only as it is written in scripture. Other wise I will use Elohim (G-d in Hebrew) or El Shaddia (G-d almighty) or so on not to make the real name of Elohim common. So be careful of using it. "The Name" "haShem"
 
The orthodox Jews is not even aloud to say it aloud Because it is to sacred to say according to them. I once asked a Jewish friend of mine if The Elohim's name is really YHWH because I always thought His name is just G-D, he looked at me very surprised and only could say to me "You said it". He was very surprise that I even knew THE NAME, but He could not say it. They only say the THE NAME when they are at the wailing wall.