Post by alon on Dec 10, 2016 16:22:08 GMT -8
Acts 11:26 (ESV) and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.
They were “called Christians,” not “they called themselves Christians.” However these were Jews, as we were told just prior:
Acts 11:19(NASB) The Church at Antioch So then those who were scattered because of the persecution that occurred in connection with Stephen made their way to Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch, speaking the word to no one except to Jews alone.
The word “church” in both scriptures is from the Greek “ekklesia” meaning a calling out, a gathering, a meeting, or a congregation (Strong’s G1577). Whenever this word is translated from the Septuagint in the “Old Testament,” it is “synagogue.” So if these are Jews, and they are meeting as a religious group, wouldn’t it stand to reason they met in synagogue and called themselves by the name of their sect?
Acts 24:5 (NASB) For we have found this man a real pest and a fellow who stirs up dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.
So which is it, “Christians” or Nots’rim (Nazarines)? Well, fortunately the “Church Fathers” in their hatred of all things Jewish wrote of these pesky “Nazarines” a bit over three centuries later as they were solidifying their own churches stranglehold on the Roman world:
4th Century "Church Father" Jerome described the Nazarene sect as those who "accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law." (Jerome; On. Isaiah 8:14).
Another 4th Century "church father," Epiphanius, said in his Panarion 29: "But these sectarians ... did not call themselves Christians--but 'Nazarenes,' ... However they are simply complete Jews. They use not only the New Testament but the Old Testament as well, as the Jews do... They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion-- except for their belief in Messiah, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that YHVH is one, and that his son is Yeshua the Messiah. They are trained to a nicety in Hebrew. For among them the entire Law, the Prophets, and the... Writings... are read in Hebrew, as they surely are by the Jews. They are different from the Jews, and different from Christians, only in the following. They disagree with Jews because they have come to faith in Messiah; but since they are still fettered by the Law--circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest-- they are not in accord with Christians. ... they are nothing but Jews."
So they were then, and centuries later still were, Jews: the sect of the Nots’rim. This, the Nots'rim, is who our contemporary Messianic movement tries to emulate. It was the religion of the shaliachim, the Apostles. HaMoshiach Himself was a Jew;
observant in all His ways. This is who I now identify with. When I first converted, I still said I was a Christian because I believed in the Christ, Yeshua. But the more I learned of the pervasive paganism in Christianity; and the more I read of things like the Church Fathers writing of a completely separate religion called the sect of the Nazarines, the more I have moved away from identifying myself as a Christian.
I do realize that some Messianics have not moved in this direction. Many still think themselves Christian, or that they can rebuild the bridge between Christianity and Judaism. The problem is, no such bridge ever existed to now be repaired. The Church Fathers hated the Jews and anything Jewish, and the religion they built reflects that in all its incarnations. However I would like to hear what others think of this.
Are we Jews? Or are we really Christians in Tallis, as the Jews accuse us of being?
How do we relate to our Christian brethren? Or are they even brethren?
Should we witness to Christians? Should we, in effect, proselytize?
Dan (just wonderin’) C
They were “called Christians,” not “they called themselves Christians.” However these were Jews, as we were told just prior:
Acts 11:19(NASB) The Church at Antioch So then those who were scattered because of the persecution that occurred in connection with Stephen made their way to Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch, speaking the word to no one except to Jews alone.
The word “church” in both scriptures is from the Greek “ekklesia” meaning a calling out, a gathering, a meeting, or a congregation (Strong’s G1577). Whenever this word is translated from the Septuagint in the “Old Testament,” it is “synagogue.” So if these are Jews, and they are meeting as a religious group, wouldn’t it stand to reason they met in synagogue and called themselves by the name of their sect?
Acts 24:5 (NASB) For we have found this man a real pest and a fellow who stirs up dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.
So which is it, “Christians” or Nots’rim (Nazarines)? Well, fortunately the “Church Fathers” in their hatred of all things Jewish wrote of these pesky “Nazarines” a bit over three centuries later as they were solidifying their own churches stranglehold on the Roman world:
4th Century "Church Father" Jerome described the Nazarene sect as those who "accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law." (Jerome; On. Isaiah 8:14).
Another 4th Century "church father," Epiphanius, said in his Panarion 29: "But these sectarians ... did not call themselves Christians--but 'Nazarenes,' ... However they are simply complete Jews. They use not only the New Testament but the Old Testament as well, as the Jews do... They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion-- except for their belief in Messiah, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that YHVH is one, and that his son is Yeshua the Messiah. They are trained to a nicety in Hebrew. For among them the entire Law, the Prophets, and the... Writings... are read in Hebrew, as they surely are by the Jews. They are different from the Jews, and different from Christians, only in the following. They disagree with Jews because they have come to faith in Messiah; but since they are still fettered by the Law--circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest-- they are not in accord with Christians. ... they are nothing but Jews."
So they were then, and centuries later still were, Jews: the sect of the Nots’rim. This, the Nots'rim, is who our contemporary Messianic movement tries to emulate. It was the religion of the shaliachim, the Apostles. HaMoshiach Himself was a Jew;
observant in all His ways. This is who I now identify with. When I first converted, I still said I was a Christian because I believed in the Christ, Yeshua. But the more I learned of the pervasive paganism in Christianity; and the more I read of things like the Church Fathers writing of a completely separate religion called the sect of the Nazarines, the more I have moved away from identifying myself as a Christian.I do realize that some Messianics have not moved in this direction. Many still think themselves Christian, or that they can rebuild the bridge between Christianity and Judaism. The problem is, no such bridge ever existed to now be repaired. The Church Fathers hated the Jews and anything Jewish, and the religion they built reflects that in all its incarnations. However I would like to hear what others think of this.
Are we Jews? Or are we really Christians in Tallis, as the Jews accuse us of being?
How do we relate to our Christian brethren? Or are they even brethren?
Should we witness to Christians? Should we, in effect, proselytize?
Dan (just wonderin’) C
