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Post by mystic on Oct 25, 2016 1:43:34 GMT -8
There is a show at 5.30am on channel 9 here is NY where a Church titled "Universal Church" keeps showing people who are stating they were healed by drinking a bottle of their Holy water and by placing their name in Holy oil. Can there be any truth to that?
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Post by alon on Oct 25, 2016 6:08:11 GMT -8
There is a show at 5.30am on channel 9 here is NY where a Church titled "Universal Church" keeps showing people who are stating they were healed by drinking a bottle of their Holy water and by placing their name in Holy oil. Can there be any truth to that?
No.
Catholics tend to have a lot of faith, which is good. But they can believe some strange things too. The power of holy water to heal, or for that matter the use of holy water itself, seems to go back to the fifth century (at least according to their own history). My background isn’t Catholic, so I don’t really understand much about it. But I did find some references which were interesting. Apparently it is baptismal water or water used to sprinkle people when they come into church. I gather people can take it home to sprinkle their homes, businesses, animals, or anything or anyone else. I guess it is to bless them, heal them or whatever is needed, but I wasn't clear on that point, so ...
A prayer for making water holy is given in a document called “Scrapion's Pontifical”: "We bless these creatures in the Name of Jesus Christ, Thy only Son; we invoke upon this water and this oil the Name of Him Who suffered, Who was crucified, Who arose from the dead, and Who sits at the right of the Uncreated. Grant unto these creatures the power to heal; may all fevers, every evil spirit, and all maladies be put to flight by him who either drinks these beverages or is anointed with them, and may they be a remedy in the Name of Jesus Christ, Thy only Son." Now, this seems to me to be more a prayer to be said when actually using the water, but they said it was to make it holy and I guess Scrapion would know better than me, so …
A reference is in a letter by someone named Synesius in which he talks about "lustral water placed in the vestibule of the temple". I didn’t know the Catholics had a temple. But another, more disturbing reference is made in another letter, by someone named Balsamon; and he tells us that in the Greek Church, they made holy water at the beginning of each lunar month. So this would have started sometime after 1054 when the Great Schism occurred between Roman Catholicism and Greek Orthodoxy. Yet they say that this rite was established according to canon 65 of the Council of Constantinople held in 691. Its’ purpose was to “definitively supplant the pagan feast of the new moon and causing it to pass into oblivion.” So the pagan church is, as always happens with evil, accusing Judaism (where the new moon festivals were kept in accordance to God’s instructions) of being pagan! I’m not clear on how holy water was to supplant the new moon feasts, other than it was used then on the first of each month. Now I think each person sprinkles themselves each time they enter the church, but I’m not sure of that, so …
These people selling holy water and saying it cures illness and disease are playing on the superstitions of those raised in a pagan church system. They prey on people desperate enough to try anything. And they prove the old adage that “a fool and his money are soon parted.” Personally, I’d as soon have toilet water sprinkled on me as to have this drink of demons in or on my person. It was interesting looking up those old documents. But they only reinforce my opinion of the church, the church fathers, and of their pagan practices. And the mercenary nature of those selling that stuff as a cure-all disgusts me. But being disgusted is about all I can do about it, so ...
But the answer to your question is “No!”
Dan C
P.S. Since the show is on in NYC, I am wondering if the grandparents of this crew were the ones selling shares of the Broklyn Bridge. I wonder what the value of those stocks are now? But I don't really understand that much about any of this, other than that this TV offer is a scam, so ... don't do it! Please! 
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Post by mystic on Oct 26, 2016 2:11:20 GMT -8
Oh no, I never considered it for myself. I am not sure if they are selling the water. I am thinking they are using that as a gimmick to attend their church. Here's the thing though. I can't see any reason why people would constantly be there testifying about having received healing for this, that and the other situations? I am wondering if their accounts are reall and if it is, is it mind over matter that they are healing themselves just by believing?
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Post by alon on Oct 26, 2016 12:46:29 GMT -8
Oh no, I never considered it for myself. I am not sure if they are selling the water. I am thinking they are using that as a gimmick to attend their church. Here's the thing though. I can't see any reason why people would constantly be there testifying about having received healing for this, that and the other situations? I am wondering if their accounts are reall and if it is, is it mind over matter that they are healing themselves just by believing?
Some lie to get attention, some because they rationalize that God COULD do these things, so it's just a white lie- and they think He somehow needs the help. Some are just liars. The frauds can count on some of these showing up to support them.
Some really do convince themselves they are being healed of some illness, which was probably also a product of a sick mind. It's not so much mind over matter as it is mind over mind. I used to do martial arts, and one of the big frauds perpetrated there is things like the "No Touch Knockout." I've seen people who really believed they were being knocked out by the chi (pronounced "ji" or "gee") energy of someone. But they invariably either break their fall or go stiff and spread their arms a bit so someone behind them can catch them. These things are indicators of some cognitive brain function. I've been knocked out (by some serious contact- no fraudulent stuff), and trust me, there is no brain activity. You drop like an armful of wet laundry. But since they believed it their minds probably did go blank.
It's the same thing as the carnival hypnotist does. He is good at seeing who is susceptible and only tries to quickly hypnotize them. Usually about half the volunteers are rejected and sent back to watch, because his only real skill is not hypnotism, but is spotting the people whose minds are susceptible to being easily convinced they are hypnotized. They can be made to make fools of themselves because they already believed, not because he took control of their minds on a stage at a carnival, with all the distractions and often with several others who must all be put under at the same time.
So no, it is not real. God is not a liar, nor is He at the beck and call of hucksters or magicians or anyone else. He does not inhabit a bowl or jar or cup of water. Demons allow themselves to be called upon to give us the illusion of control. God controls His own because they have yielded to Him, and true faith may produce a true miracle if it is His will- NOT because we sprinkled someone or something with water blessed by a priest.
Dan C
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Post by mystic on Oct 26, 2016 13:11:00 GMT -8
God controls His own because they have yielded to Him, and true faith may produce a true miracle if it is His will- NOT because we sprinkled someone or something with water blessed by a priest.
Dan C
That's my thinking. |
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Post by jimmie on Oct 26, 2016 15:29:44 GMT -8
Num 5:17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
Some of the time the "color" of truth is enough to convince people of something. Here the priest takes something clean (water/holy water) and something unclean (dust) and mixes them as a kind of trial. If this mixture goes into a clean woman, her body rejects the dust and is clear of the accusation. If her body rejects the holy water, then her body condemns her. This is not what the catholic priest is doing. He is attempting to change the state of the consumer instead of identifying the state of the consumer. This is just a small twist of scripture, with huge implications for those deceived by it.
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- there are 70 faces to 
