Please help me understand what exactly a MJ is?

[mystic]

I should have asked this question first. Are you all born Jewish [descendants from Israel] but believe in Christ? If someone wishes to become a MJ, does this mean he/she would first need to convert to becoming Jewish before can be called a MJ?

[jimmie]

We are mostly Gentiles with Christian back grounds who have found that our Christian doctrines do not line up with the Word/Law of God and choose to follow the Word/Law of God instead of the doctrines of men. We are what scripture call "grafted in Jews".

[mystic]

Thanks Jimmie, I will need to look up that term. I think and this is only "my" opinion that Orthodox Jews view christians as "copycats" whenever christians attempt to follow the , at least that is the message I am getting from some, do you guys feel the same way?

[Elizabeth]

Aug 5, 2016 5:38:54 GMT -8 mystic said:

Thanks Jimmie, I will need to look up that term. I think and this is only "my" opinion that Orthodox Jews view christians as "copycats" whenever christians attempt to follow the , at least that is the message I am getting from some, do you guys feel the same way?

Yes, we are copy cats.

What they dont understand is that it's Yeshua we are copy catting, not them. It may seem to them that it's them, but that goes back to their rejection of Yeshua.

Further, "copy catting" is exactly what we are commanded by Yeshua to do. Do they not believe that will be the rule throughout the world one day? What exactly is that then if not "copy catting". Copy catting, or setting an example, is why Israel exists and is why Israel is referred to as "the light of the world". They are to display and spread the word and will of G-d to the world. That's plain scripture.

Out of all the Jews, who has done and is doing that more than Yeshua? Christianity has its own problems which blurs the truth making it that much more difficult for them to see Yeshua for who He is, but their issue with us is reflective of their issue with Yeshua. They simply don't want to deal with Him. The world just happens to make that easy, and we don't, so now they don't want to deal with us. If we look like we are trying to be Jewish, it's because our teacher is Jewish.

[alon]

First off, we do not simply copy anyone, except as Elizabeth said, Yeshua. I get that from my wife as well, that I am just "playing Jew." But as I told you in another thread, don't let anyone else define us, because they do so out of willful ignorance of who we are, That said, I am glad you asked (us) ...

Our movement was started in the early seventies as a way by which scripture could be more accurately interpreted. Most of the founders were Jews who had accepted Yeshua, but were not comfortable with the Christian church saying they had to give up their Jewishness. The Christian view of God and other doctrines made them uncomfortable. My Rabbi's father, a Jewish believer who was at the time an AoG minister, joined the movement in the late 70's/early 80's, and my Rabbi was raised literally at the feet of some of these men in Jerusalem. He also went between Christianity and this new movement, himself being ordained an AoG minister. But both he and his father left Christianity, trading in their college degrees (a doctorate in the case of the senior) for more studies in this new theology.

Many Gentile Christians, recognizing the errors in their church doctrine, are now attracted to the movement as well; to the point that some Jews fear they will be overrun by us. In fact, some Messianic synagogues are closed to non-Jewish believers. The main bulk of Christian converts come from Baptist and Assemblies churches. But we have some of everything in the movement today.

Messianics share one common trait: we look for the truth in scripture, in history, and in our doctrine. We pass everything we believe through the fire many times over, and keep only what stands the test. We look at both Christianity and Judaism and keep what is good there, rejecting the rest. This is not copying, but rather studying to see what is right. Some customs we do copy because we find value in them. But they too are vetted, scriptures and other texts searched to see that the custom does not violate and we want to know the origins of the custom. There is some paganism even in Judaism, especially in the Orthodox. And of course Christianity is rife with it. So even when we do copy, we do so with understanding, not just for an easy way to dress up our faith.

Romans 11 is where Rav Sha'ul talks about Gentiles being grafted into the Jewish (cultivated) olive tree. There are only two trees, the wild and the cultivated, and they do not share any roots. We can be graftd into the cultivated tree, but Gentiles are of the wild tree until we are grafted. And we can be cut off again. Christianity has turned this on its head, demanding that Jews become grafted into the wild tree to be "saved." It doesn't work that way, and many Jews coming to believe in Yeshua understand this and so become ma'amim Meshichi, Messianic believers. Many Christians have come to understand that if we are not grafted into the Hebrew tree, then we are still lost. And so here we are as well.

Our faith is called Messianic Judaism because we understand that the first believers were Jewish, and Gentiles from the time of the Exodus are saved by joining themselves to Yisro'el to worship El Elohe Yisro'el. God never changed His mind about salvation. He simply fulfilled His promise to send a Redeemer. But this promise won't be completely fulfilled until He returns again in power and glory to claim His throne here on earth.

Essentially, we try to the best of our abilities to recreate the first century form of worship of the apostles and those Jews who believed. This was until sometime in the seventh century and even later a Jewish form of religion. However it was not mainstream Judaism since we were kicked out by the Jews after we left the Bar Kochba Revolt. The Nots'rim, early Messianic Jews, were blamed for this loss, and I think Elohim separated His people at that time. So we exist outside both Judaism and Christianity, both of which harbor a strong dislike, even hatred for us. Both in some ways fear us. But all we want is the truth.

There is a saying however; "The truth is a guest not welcomed in most homes."

Meshiachim welcome God's truth, and that is what sets us apart and ultimately defines us.

Dan c

 

[mystic]

Aug 5, 2016 9:36:37 GMT -8 alon said:

Messianics share one common trait: we look for the truth in scripture, in history, and in our doctrine. We pass everything we believe through the fire many times over, and keep only what stands the test. We look at both Christianity and Judaism and keep what is good there, rejecting the rest.

There is a saying however; "The truth is a guest not welcomed in most homes."

Meshiachim welcome God's truth, and that is what sets us apart and ultimately defines us.

Dan c

 

Well, that certainly describes me, does that mean I am an MJ?

Thanks for the history even though I am surprised this started only in the 70s.

[alon]

Aug 5, 2016 11:07:43 GMT -8 mystic said:

Aug 5, 2016 9:36:37 GMT -8 alon said:

Messianics share one common trait: we look for the truth in scripture, in history, and in our doctrine. We pass everything we believe through the fire many times over, and keep only what stands the test. We look at both Christianity and Judaism and keep what is good there, rejecting the rest.

There is a saying however; "The truth is a guest not welcomed in most homes."

Meshiachim welcome God's truth, and that is what sets us apart and ultimately defines us.

Dan c

 

Well, that certainly describes me, does that mean I am an MJ?

Thanks for the history even though I am surprised this started only in the 70s.

Some, Rav S among them, think there was a remnant of the Nots'rim maintained and hidden until that time. It is true God does that, however talking to Dr Chester I don't quite see that. Our understanding has exponentially multiplied in the few decades since the movement started. If there were a remnant, why didn't they come out and instruct us? I suppose it is possible they are still there, waiting for God's timing to come into the light and possibly unify the movement. I don't know. I am just happy with all I am learning now.

Oh and, yes, I do believe you are MJ. You may not be able to fulfill all the mitzvoth because of your husbands not believing. But in intent and understanding you seem to me to be more MJ than many calling themselves that. So if you identify as a Jew by adoption, believing in Yeshau as HaMoshiach, and you say you are MJ- well, then I certainly don't question it.

Dan C

[mystic]

Aug 5, 2016 11:44:12 GMT -8 alon said:

Aug 5, 2016 11:07:43 GMT -8 mystic said:

You may not be able to fulfill all the mitzvoth because of your husbands not believing.

Dan C

Not understanding what's in bold above?

[alon]

mystic, Elizabeth and myself both live in divided households. Our respective spouses are not Messianic.

This can make it very difficult and at times impossible to completely keep the mitzvoth. So we do all we can while still preserving our marriages. That is usually the higher mitzvah.

Dan C