a question about Purim

[chrisg]

Someone I know has just stated the following and I am unsure whether what he says is right or not. Please can someone point me in the right direction?

"Esther 9:26-29

For this reason these days are called Purim, from the word Pur.

Because of all the instructions in this letter as well as what they had witnessed and what had happened to them, the Jews bound themselves, their descendants, and all who joined with them to a commitment that they would not fail to celebrate these two days each and every year according to the written instructions and according to the time appointed. These days are remembered and celebrated by every generation, family, province, and city, so that these days of Purim will not lose their significance in Jewish life and their memory will not fade from their descendants.

Romans 14:5-6

One person considers one day to be above another day. Someone else considers every day to be the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind. Whoever observes the day, observes it for the honor of the Lord.

The book of Esther introduces to us a series of events that reveal the mighty hand of God - even if He is not mentioned once! His guidance behind the scenes is unmistakeable.

Because of the great events that happened, Mordecai and Esther together commanded the nation of Israel to observe a holiday that they continue to observe even today. Its called Purim. It was not set forth by Moses. It did not carry the clear command of God to do so.

Today there is a rise in Christian believers who are confused about the Israel specific language of much of the OT and the gospels as well as the language of Revelation. The teaching that the Church is an independent mystery that was not previously revealed is being forgotten and with it the distinctions of the Church and Israel. Israel has a future that will be re-established by the same God which put them (as a nation) in a spirit of slumber today.

What about so called "Christian holidays" or festivals? Purim is an OT example of the discretion that Rom 14 gives us to observe a day unto the Lord. Many in the false HRM movement, or those in the mostly believing Messianic Jew/Christian movement will say that such holidays are an "abomination". Some of this is true. When we consider how certain so called "Christian holidays" are celebrated by Roman Catholics for instance we have no choice but to decry the blatant idolatry that happens. But what about the genuine believer who celebrates Christmas or Easter (I don't give them any special spiritual significance by the way, neither does my home assembly).

Rom 14 gives us room in our conscience before God to observe the day "as to the Lord". And it instructs us to respect each other for our differing convictions on this. By all means, celebrate Christmas and Easter if you desire to. And if you don't, do not judge your fellow Christian for doing so. After all, Mordecai and Esther were not Moses and the holiday of Purim was nonetheless recorded by God for eternity in His holy word. A good lesson for us all."

[jimmie]

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye...
Persons who consider one day to be above another day and the person who considers every day to be the same are both week according to Rom 14:1. Romans 15 talks about the strong and how they should treat the week. And verse 18 tells us that Paul's (a strong one) work was to make the Gentile (weak) obedient by word and deed. We don't esteem any days except the LORD commands us. That is how one becomes strong. Compliance with God's word.

[chrisg]

So, if while we are learning we celebrate 'easter' or Christmas, we should not be condemned, but the purpose is that we should be conformed to the Word of God? And eventually we should come to understand that those 'festivals' are at best man made and at worst, pagan in origin and stop doing them?

[alon]

Apr 8, 2016 11:59:23 GMT -8 chrisg said:

So, if while we are learning we celebrate 'easter' or Christmas, we should not be condemned, but the purpose is that we should be conformed to the Word of God? And eventually we should come to understand that those 'festivals' are at best man made and at worst, pagan in origin and stop doing them?

Yeah, pretty much. Doggone it, I have a long winded reply already done and you just summed it all up right there!

I'll post it anyhow ... just because.

"Esther 9:26-29

For this reason these days are called Purim, from the word Pur.

Because of all the instructions in this letter as well as what they had witnessed and what had happened to them, the Jews bound themselves, their descendants, and all who joined with them to a commitment that they would not fail to celebrate these two days each and every year according to the written instructions and according to the time appointed. These days are remembered and celebrated by every generation, family, province, and city, so that these days of Purim will not lose their significance in Jewish life and their memory will not fade from their descendants.

Romans 14:5-6

One person considers one day to be above another day. Someone else considers every day to be the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind. Whoever observes the day, observes it for the honor of the Lord.

The book of Esther introduces to us a series of events that reveal the mighty hand of God - even if He is not mentioned once! His guidance behind the scenes is unmistakeable.

Because of the great events that happened, Mordecai and Esther together commanded the nation of Israel to observe a holiday that they continue to observe even today. Its called Purim. It was not set forth by Moses. It did not carry the clear command of God to do so.

He is absolutely correct here.

Today there is a rise in Christian believers who are confused about the Israel specific language of much of the OT and the gospels as well as the language of Revelation. The teaching that the Church is an independent mystery that was not previously revealed is being forgotten and with it the distinctions of the Church and Israel. Israel has a future that will be re-established by the same God which put them (as a nation) in a spirit of slumber today.

His problem here is he is steeped in Replacement Theology and catholic propaganda. The “church” had nothing to do with Israel or the Jews from the outset. It is in all its’ varied forms and denominations completely pagan. If you read up on the church fathers, they say as much in so many words. The rise that has him so dumbfounded is God calling people out; calling them to worship as He said to do! It is an awakening led by His own Spirit.

What about so called "Christian holidays" or festivals? Purim is an OT example of the discretion that Rom 14 gives us to observe a day unto the Lord. Many in the false HRM movement, or those in the mostly believing Messianic Jew/Christian movement will say that such holidays are an "abomination". Some of this is true. When we consider how certain so called "Christian holidays" are celebrated by Roman Catholics for instance we have no choice but to decry the blatant idolatry that happens. But what about the genuine believer who celebrates Christmas or Easter (I don't give them any special spiritual significance by the way, neither does my home assembly).

First off, nowhere in the Bible did God give anyone any discretion concerning Shabbat or the commanded feasts. He said keep ‘em, period! Purim is not a commanded feast in the sense that it came much later afterTorah was given. The only way you are technically commanded to keep it is if you are subject to a Beit Din and they say your halacha is to keep it. However it is one of the fun festivals. Not keeping it you rob yourself of a lot of joy.

Christian holidays are purely pagan, and most of them know it. Their excuse that they can worship God anywhere and in any circumstance is garbage. Since when was it ok to worship God in front of an Asher Pole or fertility symbols? How is it that it is ok to coopt pagan sunrise services (worship of the wrong Sun there!) or kneel at an altar with angels and stars and other symbols of pagan worship decorating the place?

Rom 14 gives us room in our conscience before God to observe the day "as to the Lord". And it instructs us to respect each other for our differing convictions on this. By all means, celebrate Christmas and Easter if you desire to. And if you don't, do not judge your fellow Christian for doing so. After all, Mordecai and Esther were not Moses and the holiday of Purim was nonetheless recorded by God for eternity in His holy word. A good lesson for us all."

I have to agree with jimmie. Rav Sha’ul tells us in the first verse what he is talking about, and it is NOT about doing what you want!

Romans 14:1 (NASB) Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

He is talking about how to treat those new in the faith! We don’t hammer on anyone to change all at once; it’d be impossible! We give guidance where we can, easing their journey into Observant Messianic Judaism. Like this: you asked and we tell you. But no one (I hope anyhow) has given you a list of things you have to do “right” right now. You (and for that matter me too) want to keep worshiping with a Christian assembly, no one says you or I have to leave. We’ll tell you should keep Shabbat regardless- but even that we say do the best you can in your circumstances. I think this is what Rav Sha’ul is talking about.

Romans 14:5-6 (NASB) One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

The key here is the statement “Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.” As you progress you will be more fully convinced. There may come a time you will want to sever ties with your church—or not. But you must be convinced, not me. You may not want to keep the Christian holidays, but again that is your decision. As long as you are pressing forward I think God is pleased. As He reveals things to you then you should do them.

As for Purim, I think it is worth celebrating. Not just because it is fun and I get to eat more, but because it honors God. It teaches us that although He is not mentioned directly His hand is still evident working behind the scenes. And the faith and trust evident in this story is an inspiration to us all!

Dan C

See:

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/2542/purim

[chrisg]

Thanks Dan, I appreciate that answer and it certainly answered my question. I was uncomfortable with the central paragraph about Israel and the church being distinct (accepting 'the church' as the body of believers, rather than for example, the catholic church). The guy who posted this has already said to me that he thought I was involved in 'replacement theology' and said it was wrong, yet here he is talking about something that looked pretty close to replacement theology himself - though I think he is not quite 'replacement' as 'Israel is on the back burner for a time'

[alon]

Apr 8, 2016 13:45:06 GMT -8 chrisg said:

Thanks Dan, I appreciate that answer and it certainly answered my question. I was uncomfortable with the central paragraph about Israel and the church being distinct (accepting 'the church' as the body of believers, rather than for example, the catholic church). The guy who posted this has already said to me that he thought I was involved in 'replacement theology' and said it was wrong, yet here he is talking about something that looked pretty close to replacement theology himself - though I think he is not quite 'replacement' as 'Israel is on the back burner for a time'

This is one reason we don't come down on anyone else for what they do not know or do: we all have these holdovers from our past! That he is against Replacement Theology, yet posts supporting it is not unusual. Hopefully he is teachable and will learn when you point this out.

Israel is never on the back burner. The Jews are still His people, and how He sees you depends in large part on how you see the Jews! Yerushalayim is the center of the universe too. Not that it physically revolves around the city. But all God's history does revolve around Yerushalayim. Nothing revolves around the church or Rome.

Catholic means universal, and when I say catholic (small "c"), I either did a typo (happens) or I mean the universal church as an idea which was precursor to Catholicism proper. This idea started to form late in the first century, and from its' inception one of the goals was to dispossess the Jews and remove God's throne. Nothing has changed in two millennia. The Catholic Church is overtly pagan in everything. They remade Yeshua, changed the feasts of the Lord for pagan holidays, remade their worship and tried to remove any "taint of Judaism" from their "New" Testament and their church. The Protestants came out of a lot of the overt paganism, but they stoped with Luthers' thesis and never asked "Could there be other things wrong?" As a result, Catholics now boast about how so called "Protestants" still keep the edicts of the Popes concerning Sunday worship, holidays and many of their doctrines. And there is a LOT of both latent and overt anti-Semitism in the Protestant churches. Replacement Theology is a staple, as is Dispensationalism.

It sounds like your friend is searching for the truth. I pray he finds it.

Dan C