Keeping Sabbath - a few questions

[chrisg]

This was my first time trying to keep the Sabbath. On the day before, I thought I would prepare, so nothing would be out of place when it started. I am not a great housekeeper    which meant I needed to do some cleaning first. On Fridays, I also clean my father's house - it only takes an hour, so it isn't onerous. I got up late - not a good start. Then cleaned my father's house, then did my shopping. By this time, it was 3pm already! As sunset is around 6pm at the moment, I set that as the time I needed to be ready. So I sorted the laundry, cleaned the kitchen and prepared the evening meal. I had so little time, I was getting really stressed and realised I needed to plan my time better next week. Stress makes me grumpy, so that was definitely not a good start to Sabbath.
The evening went well enough - I read and studied some, then went to bed early. Saturday morning went really well, with more studying and plenty of resting and peace and quiet. But then my husband decided he needed to play some music really loudly - he builds amplifiers and the one he has been working on needed testing. The music went on for over four hours and I was tearing my hair out by the end. I didn't want to say anything to stop him as it might look as I was nagging, but I was near to tears. We hadn't been able to go for a hike (we have some beautiful countryside nearby, with few people), as the weather was terrible - gales and driving rain.

Also, I hadn't really thought where to get some suitable fellowship. I had been thinking that as I will be going to church on Sunday that it might not be necessary, but as the day went on, I thought I should have sought out some online fellowship, even if there was nothing I could attend physically (no Messianic groups near me that I have found yet). So I contented myself with reading some online Messianic sermons which were wonderful. Next time, I think I will look for a live streamed service instead, or as well. Other than that, I stayed off the internet until after sunset, which says something in itself - normally I am interacting on FB and other sites quite a lot (probably why my housekeeping isn't the best!)

So the day wasn't awful, but I definitely need to be more prepared and to sort out my sloppy housekeeping, so it doesn't get me so stressed next time. And fellowship is needful too. And between now and next week, I need to speak to my husband (when I am calm) about the amount of music blaring through our house - even had it not been Sabbath, I would have found it wearing, but at least I could have just gone shopping or something to escape if it had been Thursday or something.

I did speak to him about communion on Sunday morning. He said he was still thinking about it, so I have not had an answer yet. If he says nothing by tomorrow morning, I will just not take it and see what he says afterwards. I had hoped he would come to a decision, especially as he is uncomfortable with leavened bread himself, and then maybe he would speak to the elders. It is looking though like I might have to speak to them myself  Certainly not looking forward to that!

[Elizabeth]

In my own enthusiasm I forgot to congratulate you and wish you well in keeping Shabbat chrisg.

I had no clue what to do either. Don't feel you need to worry about anything. That's the whole idea of Shabbat. I really focused on dedicating the day to G-d and not getting caught up in pressure, time, or what I "should" be doing. That included when work became unavoidable as I gave my family time to accept the change and didn't want to defeat the purpose of what I was trying to accomplish with arguing. I also didn't want to further divide the family by excluding them or myself. I now also come on here for community. We discussed it on the forum, and with Alon's Rabbi's guidance, ( if I remember correctly) concluded this was a good option for those without a Messisnic Synagogue in their area to attend. I focused on spending the day with G-d and my family, and just made simple food for Shabbat the day before. Now, I also watch the service online.

continued prayers for your strength and confidence regarding communion as well.


I typed this while you were typing your post about your first Shabbat chrisg . I want to clarify something as well.  Because I typed it before reading yours, the spending time with family references could come across insensitive.  When I said I focused on my family, initially that was just my kids as my husband separated himself and played computer.  Just do the best you can with your situation and try to enjoy the time with G-d. 

[alon]

Yes, I remember talking to Rav S about it; and for those with no local assembly the online service here is an excellent option. So is spending a little time reading and posting here.

chris, I know what you mean about stress going into Shabbat. I try to set a 1/2 hr fence around it so whatever I've started I'm not pushed into the time after darkness. If it is a big thing like cleaning the house, my advice is to just prioritize and not worry about what doesn't get done. Hopefully your husband will be understanding.

I went to our main synagogue in Wenatchee today and had a good time of fellowship. It's not often I get to go, so that was a real treat. I carpooled with another member of our satellite group, so it was a good trip over and back.

I pray all goes well for you at church tomorrow chris. It's Easter, so it will be significant both for you and to them that you pass on communion.

Dan C

[chrisg]

I avoided posting on here because I thought it better to avoid internet - I hadn't thought about it as being a form of fellowship. I will know better next time.

Church was interesting. It is a Brethren assembly (we don't call ourselves a 'church' for we believe the church is the people, not the building) and as I said before, we break bread (communion) every Sunday morning. There are only around 20 of us. The men pray and suggest hymns for us all to sing, and bring a testimony or read something from the Scripture. The actual breaking of bread occurs towards the end of the meeting: an elder will pray then the bread will be passed round on a plate. Each person breaks off some, then passes it to the next person. The same happens with the wine - a single cup is passed round from one person to another. At the end of that (it's more like a prayer meeting, rather than a 'church service') we have the notices, then we have ministry - we are currently studying the gospel of John together - that involves one of the elders (not the same one each week, as they share the ministry) standing at the front and preaching. Today, we were in John 7, looking at the part where Jesus stood up on the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles and said 'If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink' and the following verses to the end of the chapter. Actually, the message was very good, even if he did get his feasts a bit muddled.

With that being the way it is done, it was no hardship to pass the bread from my husband to the person next along our row. I doubt the lady concerned would have noticed. My husband has said nothing at all. Either he didn't notice either, or he was expecting me not to partake. But then neither did he say anything beforehand to give any guidance which was disappointing. I hope that when we next speak about it, he might ask the elders (who are very approachable) about using unleavened bread.

The 'easter' aspect was no issue either. Yes it was mentioned, but we don't make a big deal about it, because the way we do things means we view every Sunday as 'resurrection Sunday' to some extent, as we commemorate the death and resurrection each week. During refreshments following the service, there was some mention of 'easter' and some miniature chocolate eggs were passed round. I just declined - but then they are aware that I do not digest sugar (sucrose) very well (I have a missing enzyme, or at least one that isn't functioning as well as that of other people), so no-one thought anything of it. It only meant that I didn't get the opportunity to say why I didn't want to partake of 'easter eggs'. It is funny how, when you start to understand the Old Testament as being part of the Scriptures, and not as simply 'background reading', that you see things you might not have noticed before - such as not mixing pagan religious practices with the worship of the true God. I had never seen that before, nor the bit about not mixing leaven with the blood of God's sacrifices. Shocking what you miss when you come to the Scriptures with pre-conceived ideas or teachings that have not been checked against the actual Word of God.

Thank you to all of you who have been helpful in this - it is very much appreciated.

[alon]

Sometimes it is good to get through a small victory first, however I'm guessing you'll have to deal with this at some point. I wouldn't take it for granted no one has noticed, although it is entirely possible they didn't. I've talked with the pastor at my wife's church so he knows it is not meant as a sleight that I don't participate. The ushers notice, but they know I am Messianic so none of them have broached the subject. I did however attend one service at the Nazarene church to support the ordination into full ministry of a friend. He had just completed his Masters degree, which is now required by them to be a pastor. They all filed past and broke bread from a loaf and drank from a cup, similar to what you describe. I spoke with him afterward, and he hadn't even noticed. We used to have some lively debates, but he chose not to debate this subject and I honored his wishes.

LOL, he is a Christian from New Jersey, and I am both Messianic and a true son of the South, so we used to love to argue! All in good fun though. He took a church over in Idaho a little over a year ago. Ornery beggar; I suppose in a way he got the last argument there. Up to that point however his record was somewhat less stellar!  I do miss dropping by his study to talk.

Dan C

[chrisg]

Some developments today

first, I am actually ready for Sabbath without the stress (well, less stress than last week, anyway);
second, the auction I have been going to on Saturdays was moved to Friday this week and will be for the rest of the month! Apparently, they move it to Friday from time to time, so I will still be able to attend some, but not all, which is good news;
third, I was so busy getting cleaned up and tidy that I forgot to put the dinner on - my husband isn't thrilled that dinner will be late;
fourth, husband is planning on working on the car tomorrow - I am praying that it rains!! (he doesn't have anywhere indoors to work, so he wont be able to do it if it's raining) - is this wrong of me? Mind you, if he isn't doing the car, he will be working on the amplifier he is building 

[alon]

Apr 1, 2016 9:36:46 GMT -8 chrisg said:

Some developments today

first, I am actually ready for Sabbath without the stress (well, less stress than last week, anyway);
second, the auction I have been going to on Saturdays was moved to Friday this week and will be for the rest of the month! Apparently, they move it to Friday from time to time, so I will still be able to attend some, but not all, which is good news;
third, I was so busy getting cleaned up and tidy that I forgot to put the dinner on - my husband isn't thrilled that dinner will be late;
fourth, husband is planning on working on the car tomorrow - I am praying that it rains!! (he doesn't have anywhere indoors to work, so he wont be able to do it if it's raining) - is this wrong of me? Mind you, if he isn't doing the car, he will be working on the amplifier he is building 

It does get easier as you go on in this. I too am stress free and ready for Shabbat, but it took me a lot longer than you did to figure out how to do this! Way to go!

If your husband is set on working, then I'd say just leave him to it. Just let him know you won't be breaking Shabbat and stick to it. Invite him into any rituals you wish to do, like lighting candles and having a Shabos eve meal; or when Shabbat ends do havdalah. And try to make the Saturday meals at least a little appealing to him so he knows it's not a grind to observe Shabbat. If you can't do all that this week, just plan to improve next week.

Passover is coming up too, and while you may not be able to do that "right" you should plan something. We are commanded to observe the feast, and just starting out do it the best you can and improve next year, and the year after too. Maybe even find some Christian friends with which to share the load. There is a lot of interest in their "Hebrew Roots" in many churches today. If some of your church were there you could even work in a statement about why it is wrong to use leavened bread with communion. A Seder is just an order of service- many Rabbis change them by adding explanations when they give demonstration seders to Christians.

Just some thoughts. I pray for all of us who have spouses who ar not open to the truth.

Dan C

Stay with it and hopefully he will come around.

[chrisg]

Oddly enough, he seems receptive to celebrating Passover - just as long as we don't do it like the Jews   He wants us to remember Christ, not the Exodus, though he fully understands the connection between the two

[alon]

Apr 1, 2016 12:35:44 GMT -8 chrisg said:

Oddly enough, he seems receptive to celebrating Passover - just as long as we don't do it like the Jews   He wants us to remember Christ, not the Exodus, though he fully understands the connection between the two

The way the Jews do it IS about Christ! This is one of God's appointed times; in Hebrew "moedim." The term "moed" also implies a dress rehearsal. All of the feasts of the Lord are dress rehearsals for the important times in our history where He has or will interact with us in a mighty way. The Passover was a minute by minute dress rehearsal for the days leading up to, during and after the Cross. The Exodus itself was a type of Yeshua and what He would do for us.

shop.elshaddaiministries.us/Feasts-of-the-Lord-Set-ITEM-100-001.htm

This is a link to an item I highly recommend to anyone. The guy that does it is Hebrew Roots, as is his whole site. There is some stuff there that is OK, some is just wrong; but this is outstanding! He does make some mistakes, but it is one of the best dvd's explaining Passover I ever saw! He walks you through the Seder and explains the meaning of everything, right down to the matzah. He shows us how the Jews were doing a dress rehearsal for Yeshua and the Cross for 1500 yrs before He was born!

Apparently he has put a bunch of Blood Moon craziness on the dvd. I hope it didn't ruin any of the good stuff. But just ignore anything having to do with blood moons. I get my calendars rom him, but almost all of what he has is HR and so has some serious bad doctrine in it. So I don't recommend buying a lot of stuff from him.

One book I do recommend, whether you get it from him or another bookstore is this one:

shop.elshaddaiministries.us/Forgotten-Blessing-ForgotBless-4C.htm?categoryId=-1

But get the dvd on Passover. You'll be glad tou did- and you'll never see it (or communion) the same again!

Dan C

edit: actually, that dvd is a set, and it has all the feasts on different dvd's. So that is a good buy. I bought two- one for me and one to loan out. I still have exactly one set ... how does that work again?

[garrett]

Apr 1, 2016 9:36:46 GMT -8 chrisg said:

Some developments today

first, I am actually ready for Sabbath without the stress (well, less stress than last week, anyway);
second, the auction I have been going to on Saturdays was moved to Friday this week and will be for the rest of the month! Apparently, they move it to Friday from time to time, so I will still be able to attend some, but not all, which is good news;
third, I was so busy getting cleaned up and tidy that I forgot to put the dinner on - my husband isn't thrilled that dinner will be late;
fourth, husband is planning on working on the car tomorrow - I am praying that it rains!! (he doesn't have anywhere indoors to work, so he wont be able to do it if it's raining) - is this wrong of me? Mind you, if he isn't doing the car, he will be working on the amplifier he is building 

chrisg - please be encouraged about this process. It sounds like you're making a sincere effort in being shomer shabbos (guarding the sabbath). G-d says that this is THE holiest day of convocation, more than any of the other Moedim, or Holy Days/Feasts.

Deciding upon sabbath keeping can be both exciting, confusing and overwhelming. Just keep things simple for your own sake. You will find things falling into place. You will also find a routine that you can settle into. Be sure not to overwhelm yourself with, "what do I do???" questions. Life is short, so be easy on yourself

Alon has given you a good basis for starters. Just try that. I was fortunate in that I had intermittently begun sabbath keeping a few years back but my wife wasn't completely into it. She wasn't against it at all, it was just unfamiliar to her. Then one day the miraculous words came out of her mouth where she said, "why don't we just do this every week from now on." My jaw dropped. Now that she was completely on board I found myself less confused. I knew more about all the sabbath stuff but she took over some of the planning - it does NOT have to be complicated.

She has a small checklist of things to take care of with regard to food, candles, saying the short blessings, etc. We just try to have the place straightened up a bit and turn off any lights we don't want to use. The cars sit, unused. The appliances sit, unused.......and at first, it's kind of weird. It's quiet. We noticed that time really started to stand still. So...we REST, read, I generally read the portion for the week, we have actual time together. We rest because the L-rd rested. I used to go to a synagogue in my city somewhat frequently but now I generally spend more time at home, just me and my wife. If you observe the Sabbath alone, that is a privilege in its own unique way.

The awkwardness will wear away and you'll realize that you're not "pretending" anything. You're just keeping the Sabbath! Much of it is a mentality, not just a bunch of rules to get upset about. Sundown to sundown-ish, rest, scriptures, blocking out as much of what you do the other six days of the week. It may even feel like a burden for a little bit (because it is new) but you will come to look forward to it each week. And you might really find yourself "missing" it if something in life really interferes.

Sorry for being redundant but just take it slow, give it months and months and you will find a cozy routine that welcomes the day of rest we are given and the rewards it provides. And you won't be missing a thing in the "outside world" during that time.

One last thing - if your husband is doing activities, that's okay. You can still keep this sabbath mindset throughout the day and handle it as realistically as possible. Elizabeth is right, he's your husband. So honoring him is also pleasing to G-d. I think you'll do great.

May G-d Bless You - garrett

[chrisg]

Apr 1, 2016 13:38:14 GMT -8 alon said:

Apr 1, 2016 12:35:44 GMT -8 chrisg said:

Oddly enough, he seems receptive to celebrating Passover - just as long as we don't do it like the Jews   He wants us to remember Christ, not the Exodus, though he fully understands the connection between the two

The way the Jews do it IS about Christ! This is one of God's appointed times; in Hebrew "moedim." The term "moed" also implies a dress rehearsal. All of the feasts of the Lord are dress rehearsals for the important times in our history where He has or will interact with us in a mighty way. The Passover was a minute by minute dress rehearsal for the days leading up to, during and after the Cross. The Exodus itself was a type of Yeshua and what He would do for us.

He means that we don't celebrate it as it was done before Christ came, but that we remember that He has now come and so the feast is no longer commemorating something future, but something both past and present, if that makes sense. The feasts were looking forward to something; but now we can see that these things have been fulfilled in the Messiah.

[alon]

Apr 2, 2016 4:48:56 GMT -8 chrisg said:

Apr 1, 2016 13:38:14 GMT -8 alon said:

The way the Jews do it IS about Christ! This is one of God's appointed times; in Hebrew "moedim." The term "moed" also implies a dress rehearsal. All of the feasts of the Lord are dress rehearsals for the important times in our history where He has or will interact with us in a mighty way. The Passover was a minute by minute dress rehearsal for the days leading up to, during and after the Cross. The Exodus itself was a type of Yeshua and what He would do for us.

He means that we don't celebrate it as it was done before Christ came, but that we remember that He has now come and so the feast is no longer commemorating something future, but something both past and present, if that makes sense. The feasts were looking forward to something; but now we can see that these things have been fulfilled in the Messiah.

Well, in that case I'd agree with him. All Messianics look back to Yeshua and what He did at this time when we celebrate Passover. But it is important to see it as it happened, not just as the "Easter story" tells it. There is so much more depth and meaning when viewed through Jewish eyes as you celebrate the Pesach seder. There is also the just amazing and miraculous way in which YHVH prophetically illustrated these events in His Spring feasts, as only He could do. And there is the idea that if most of the prophecies of the Spring feasts were fulfilled in the first coming, then the Fall feasts must prophetically address His second coming!

And the feasts are commanded throughout all generations, not just those until they are fulfilled. Neither Yeshua nor any apostle ever said they were canceled. So this year I recommend just having a meal with as many elements as you can and maybe as a family watch the dvd I recommended to get a better idea what this feast means. If you can get a full seder together in two weeks, that'd be great. But don't stress out on it if you can't. Like me and garrett said, just go slow, do what you can and improve every year. The main thing is to try, and to observe the day. Start looking for matzah now, so you are sure to have it as unless you have a large Jewish community nearby, which would imply a source of kosher foods, matzah can be difficult to find. Safeways has it here, but it was on the bottom shelf in the ethnic foods section which they renamed the Hispanic foods section here ... like I said, hard to find, even when it is there. And they only had a few left when I got it two days ago.

So just dive in and have fun. It really is a joyous thing and very enlightening. And while the exodus is a part of the story, for us it is not the focus of the story. We remember the exodus and what God has done for His people; and we remember the greater story it foretold as well as facilitated.

By the way, I think I referenced the dvd set and the workbook, as that is what I bought. But you can get the dvd's about five bucks cheaper ordering them without the books. That is one thing I'll give Biltz credit for- none of his stuff is overpriced. In fact, most the stuff on his site is cheaper than the same things "used but in good condition" on other sources.

Dan C 

edit: you should also observe the seven ay feast of unleavened bread, eating only matzah in this time. I don't clean all leaven out of the house because my wife won't observe the feast. But I do eat only matzah- which my wife calls "Jewish concrete." So drink a lot of water. I love the stuff. I eat it with peanut butter and jelly, butter and cinnamon-sugar, with meals ... I let my imagination run wild. Which means I probably eat too much of it. And she sneaks in and eats it too ...

[chrisg]

Apparently Sainsbury's here has it too (though it is currently unavailable), but it says it isn't suitable for Passover. I have found some recipes and can make some myself, if I can get the ingredients

[alon]

Apr 2, 2016 6:39:18 GMT -8 chrisg said:

Apparently Sainsbury's here has it too (though it is currently unavailable), but it says it isn't suitable for Passover. I have found some recipes and can make some myself, if I can get the ingredients

Not suitable for Passover means it may have yeast in it. Either it was made in an environment such as a bakery where a lot of yeast may be present, or it wasn't baked quickly enough after the water was added so the dough may have drawn yeast from the air. Good catch, checking on that. Since the original Passover meal was eaten with home made matzah, I'd say you are just fine baking your own! Good luck! Be sure to get the holes in it in even rows and bake on a grille, not in a pan. This is an important illustration of the wounds Yeshua suffered and His stripes, by which we are healed (from the marks left by the grill).

Dan C