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Post by alon on Jan 28, 2016 14:32:44 GMT -8
The following was posted in another venue by Rabbi Stanley Chester. Reposted here, with permission:
Nazarene Judaism
Nazarene Judaism maintains a belief in the Messiah. We do not leave the Jewish identity, heritage and culture to convert to a new or foreign religion.
To some the concept of believing in the Messiah and practicing Judaism is contradictory. The common wisdom is that on the one side you have Jews and Judaism, and on the other you have Gentiles (there's no such thing as a Gentile BTW, it's a Latin word. The Hebrew word is "goy and it means one of two things, "heathen" or "nation"; It was never meant to be used to mean "non Jew") and Christianity. However in the first century there were literally hundreds of thousands of Jewish followers of the Messiah (Acts 2:41, 47; 4:4; 6:7; 9:31; 21:20). They were zealous for the  (Acts 15:19-21; 21:17-27) and met in synagogues (James 1:1, 2:2).
Nazarenes refrain from calling themselves Christians. The first use of the term Christian was in Antioch, among the first G-d Fearers (those who were not yet Jewish but on their way towards becoming Jews) of the sect of the Nazerenes (sect of what? Sect of Jews) of the Messiah (Acts 11:26). Early believers never called themselves Christians, as it was a slang term that literally means the defecation or excretion of Christ and was used to mock them.
Nazarenes recognize the seventh day-- Friday evening to Saturday evening-- as being the Sabbath (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; 32:12-17). We still observe the rite of circumcision. We observe the Holy Days described in Leviticus-23 which are to be "celebrated as a perpetual statute throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places... forever" (Leviticus 23:14; 21; 31; 41).
Today we are seeking to put Yeshua HaMashiach (Yeshua The Messiah) back into the context of first century Judaism. A return to the Tenach (the so called "Old Testament") and to the root of the olive tree (Romans 11). Nazarene Judaism is a spiritual renaissance, a revival, a return to the pure faith of the first century Sect of the Nazarenes & Followers of the Way.
Rav |
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Post by jimmie on Jan 28, 2016 16:04:13 GMT -8
Very interesting. But I would have the follow questions for them.
So Paul nearly persuaded Agrippa to become the excretion of Christ? Acts 26:28
Corinthians = excretion of Corinth?
Galatians = excretion of Galat?
Ephesians = excretion of Ephesus?
Colossians = excretion of Coloss?
Thessalonians = excretion of Thessalonica?
It would appear that Christian means a resident of Christ.
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Post by alon on Jan 28, 2016 21:54:49 GMT -8
Very interesting. But I would have the follow questions for them. So Paul nearly persuaded Agrippa to become the excretion of Christ? Acts 26:28 Corinthians = excretion of Corinth? Galatians = excretion of Galat? Ephesians = excretion of Ephesus? Colossians = excretion of Coloss? Thessalonians = excretion of Thessalonica? It would appear that Christian means a resident of Christ.
The only places the word Christian is used in the Bible are:
Act 26:28 (KJV) Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
1 Pe 4:16 (KJV) Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
In the first, it was Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, a Roman statesman and general who used the term. In the second, people are being exhorted to be strong if suffering as a Christian, another negative context.
Act 11:26 (KJV) And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
The term Christians is used only once, and again it is others who are calling these believers Christians. It does not say they called themselves that.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Jan 28, 2016 22:37:02 GMT -8
Meyer, a Christian commentator who I often reference, said in his Commentary on Acts that all three instances can be read as outsiders using this name as a reproach. I think he is correct. Also, wouldn’t it make sense that if this was the name they had chosen by which to identify themselves, those missives you quoted would have been addressed to “The Christians at _______ “? Doesn’t the fact all three places where it occurs it is contextually likely to be contemptuous make you wonder? In scripture, believers preferred to be called "brethren," "disciples" or "followers.” They did not call themselves Christians. Peter says "if you are suffering as a 'Christian'", probably meaning they were being reproached with a slanderous name. And let’s look at a better translation of Acts 28 which I most frequently use: Acts 26:28 (ESV) And Agrippa said to Paul, “In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?” a Footnotes: a. Or In a short time you would persuade me to act like a Christian!
No way that is anything but a slam! And since the last one, Acts 11, clearly said others were calling them Christian, I think we can safely say that it is as the Rabbi says. I know, you hate that term with a passion. But this is a Messianic Jewish website. If you prefer Christianity so much, then by all means … but here we try and divest ourselves of these fallacious Christian teachings. Dan C
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Post by jimmie on Jan 29, 2016 6:19:18 GMT -8
Were have I ever said that I hate the term Rabbi or any term for that matter?
Rabbi simply means master and Jesus was one. John 1:38
And I like all of those terms and others such as saint, faithful, church, beloved, servant, elect and others as well.
I would like you to address the main thrust of my post:
If Christian = excretion of Christ
then why doesn't
Corinthians = excretion of Corinth?
Galatians = excretion of Galat?
Ephesians = excretion of Ephesus?
Colossians = excretion of Coloss?
Thessalonians = excretion of Thessalonica?
It seems more logical that Christian means resident of Christ or one who dwells in Christ. Just as Corinthian means a resident of Corinth or one who dwells in Corinth.
By the why I never claimed that Christian was not a term used to slam The Way. Baptist call themselves a term that was used to slam them. What man means for evil, God can use for good.
Where does it say that others were calling the believers Christians? From the text, we don't know who was using the term. Only that it was used.
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Post by alon on Jan 29, 2016 9:41:58 GMT -8
Well, every time I use it you seem to have a conniption. Ergo …
No one said you didn’t like those terms, just that the early believers liked them more as well.
I fail to see any “logic” in that reasoning at all. You can’t simply impose meanings on terms because you don’t like the meanings of other terms which are similar in an English translation- and one I might add that relies heavily on the misuse of the term by the church!
Actually you did in the very post you are defending, when you gave the Christian definition “Christian means a resident of Christ.”
Acts 11:26 (ESV) and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.
It says they “were first called Christians,” not they called themselves Christians. Logically you cannot say above you never said the term wasn’t a slam, and thus acquiesce to its meaning as the Rabbi and Meyer said, then argue they called themselves that first. But interpret it as you want, I am done fighting with you as you seem to want to argue everything ad infinitum lately; which detracts from the forum. I think my point is made.
Shalom.
Dan C
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Post by garrett on Feb 3, 2016 16:24:52 GMT -8
Today we are seeking to put Yeshua HaMashiach (Yeshua The Messiah) back into the context of first century Judaism. A return to the Tenach (the so called "Old Testament") and to the root of the olive tree (Romans 11). Nazarene Judaism is a spiritual renaissance, a revival, a return to the pure faith of the first century Sect of the Nazarenes & Followers of the Way.
Rav Imagine what modern day, Western Christian lives would be transformed into if Yeshua truly was placed back into the basic context of first century Judaism. Can you conceive of hundreds of thousands of Americans and Europeans transitioning into the awareness and practice of the biblical Holy Days, let alone the Sabbath? Obviously, this is a stretch but I wonder what the picture would look like. Churches would be changed into synagogues, crosses would be taken down and people would gradually learn the language of the Messiah himself. And they would have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It might even garner the support of many men since Sundays are so big for football and they would have that day all to themselves (!). Based on standards, men would have to live and behave differently, as the women would too. And kids would really benefit. I know it's a pipe dream but it's fun to think about it - garrett |
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 4, 2016 7:04:04 GMT -8
Today we are seeking to put Yeshua HaMashiach (Yeshua The Messiah) back into the context of first century Judaism. A return to the Tenach (the so called "Old Testament") and to the root of the olive tree (Romans 11). Nazarene Judaism is a spiritual renaissance, a revival, a return to the pure faith of the first century Sect of the Nazarenes & Followers of the Way.
Rav Imagine what modern day, Western Christian lives would be transformed into if Yeshua truly was placed back into the basic context of first century Judaism. Can you conceive of hundreds of thousands of Americans and Europeans transitioning into the awareness and practice of the biblical Holy Days, let alone the Sabbath? Obviously, this is a stretch but I wonder what the picture would look like. Churches would be changed into synagogues, crosses would be taken down and people would gradually learn the language of the Messiah himself. And they would have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It might even garner the support of many men since Sundays are so big for football and they would have that day all to themselves (!). Based on standards, men would have to live and behave differently, as the women would too. And kids would really benefit. I know it's a pipe dream but it's fun to think about it - garrett Well, one day it will be real and we will probably look back on this life thinking how unreal was that!  In the meantime we are stuck in this weird place of it seeming impossible and difficult, wondering why it has to be so impossible and difficult, yet having the faith to know it is quite simple. The world is imperfect and G-d is perfect. For now, we are just stuck in the middle of imperfection and perfection waiting and hoping for people to catch up. |
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(Acts 15:19-21; 21:17-27) and met in synagogues (James 1:1, 2:2).
