Post by alon on Sept 14, 2015 10:20:05 GMT -8
Imagine a wild olive tree, including its roots. The trunk is Christianity, and its branches are Christians As we’ve discussed here before, its roots are paganism as the church had no legitimate ties to either Judaism or to the apostolic line. They’ve abolished G-d’s Shabbat, His feasts, circumcision, dietary laws- in fact, almost all His mitzvoth have been declared null and void, and the ones they didn’t abolish they break on a regular basis.
When a Gentile comes to the Lord they are grafted onto this tree. Worse than this, when a Jew is “saved” in Christianity, they are also grafted onto this pagan tree. I’m not saying there aren’t some saved Christians; however they are saved in spite of and not because of their religion. And the farther away from
, that “Law” that Christianity has abolished, the more likely they are to miss the mark or to fall away.
Romans 11:16-25 (ESV) 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
This is the correct tree, the cultivated tree; the roots are, the trunk is saved Israel, and the branches are Meshiachim- both Messsianic Jews and Gentile converts to Messianic Judaism. Once you have been grafted in, you are then adopted into G-d’s true Congregation. There’s no new salvation if you’re already Born Again. You’re just converting, moving onto to the right tree. A Jew who comes to Yeshua does not convert, as they are already Jewish! They are simply saved, and regrafted to the tree of saved Israel.
The tree with the pagan roots cannot last. It can’t sustain itself! Today we see this tree, its trunk rotted beginning to topple. God has allowed Christianity to dominate for 2000 yrs. Christianity evangelized the world, and has many times stopped Islam from taking over the world. It did serve His divine purpose to allow this. However I think now we, the Meshiachim, are being called out to once more worship Him as He said we were to worship; not as was declared by pagan Popes, which is in every way contrary to what God said to do.
We also see that instead of stopping Islam, Christianity today is leading the charge to embrace Islam. We see a church beset by scandal after scandal and which no longer even teaches the tennets it held to in my youth; an enemic, depraved body whose main goals are to make its members feel good and embracing universalism in religion. When I was a kid, if you left church feeling all warm and fuzzy, the pastor was not doing his job! Now I’m not saying we should leave feeling bad about ourselves either. But the truth, even what truth Christianity has, is not always a comfortable thing to hear!
Messianism also has its share of problems, mostly because there are so few qualified Rabbis and those we have are spread thin. There are too many ebionites and cults trying to fly the Messianic flag; and too many Messianic groups are just Christianity with a tallit and a few Jewish words in the mix. We also have the problem that we are trying to revive a faith which has not been practiced for centuries- a Jewish faith based on and trust in Yeshua as HaMoshiach; and which all too often is being done by Gentiles either alone or as a body. We do make mistakes. But then we give thanks for God’s grace and move on, trying again and again and always learning.
Dan C
Sources: teaching by Rav S, my father, personal observation, and other
edit: obviously at times here I am speaking of the church in general terms. There are still some pastors who preach the Word as they see it, not to tickle the ears of their congregations but to present what they believe to be the truth. However even then I find the ones today preaching "the truth" to be a shadow of what I was raised with. All do not embrace Islam or even universalism, obviously. But by and large I think one has only to open their eyes and look around to see the truth in what I've said here about the church as a whole. Sadly, a search of Messianism on the web will give more than ample evidence of the craziness that tries to glom onto our movement as well. But a simple search of scripture brings me back to where I belong ...
When a Gentile comes to the Lord they are grafted onto this tree. Worse than this, when a Jew is “saved” in Christianity, they are also grafted onto this pagan tree. I’m not saying there aren’t some saved Christians; however they are saved in spite of and not because of their religion. And the farther away from
, that “Law” that Christianity has abolished, the more likely they are to miss the mark or to fall away.Romans 11:16-25 (ESV) 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
This is the correct tree, the cultivated tree; the roots are
, the trunk is saved Israel, and the branches are Meshiachim- both Messsianic Jews and Gentile converts to Messianic Judaism. Once you have been grafted in, you are then adopted into G-d’s true Congregation. There’s no new salvation if you’re already Born Again. You’re just converting, moving onto to the right tree. A Jew who comes to Yeshua does not convert, as they are already Jewish! They are simply saved, and regrafted to the tree of saved Israel.The tree with the pagan roots cannot last. It can’t sustain itself! Today we see this tree, its trunk rotted beginning to topple. God has allowed Christianity to dominate for 2000 yrs. Christianity evangelized the world, and has many times stopped Islam from taking over the world. It did serve His divine purpose to allow this. However I think now we, the Meshiachim, are being called out to once more worship Him as He said we were to worship; not as was declared by pagan Popes, which is in every way contrary to what God said to do.
We also see that instead of stopping Islam, Christianity today is leading the charge to embrace Islam. We see a church beset by scandal after scandal and which no longer even teaches the tennets it held to in my youth; an enemic, depraved body whose main goals are to make its members feel good and embracing universalism in religion. When I was a kid, if you left church feeling all warm and fuzzy, the pastor was not doing his job! Now I’m not saying we should leave feeling bad about ourselves either. But the truth, even what truth Christianity has, is not always a comfortable thing to hear!
Messianism also has its share of problems, mostly because there are so few qualified Rabbis and those we have are spread thin. There are too many ebionites and cults trying to fly the Messianic flag; and too many Messianic groups are just Christianity with a tallit and a few Jewish words in the mix. We also have the problem that we are trying to revive a faith which has not been practiced for centuries- a Jewish faith based on
and trust in Yeshua as HaMoshiach; and which all too often is being done by Gentiles either alone or as a body. We do make mistakes. But then we give thanks for God’s grace and move on, trying again and again and always learning.Dan C
Sources: teaching by Rav S, my father, personal observation, and other
edit: obviously at times here I am speaking of the church in general terms. There are still some pastors who preach the Word as they see it, not to tickle the ears of their congregations but to present what they believe to be the truth. However even then I find the ones today preaching "the truth" to be a shadow of what I was raised with. All do not embrace Islam or even universalism, obviously. But by and large I think one has only to open their eyes and look around to see the truth in what I've said here about the church as a whole. Sadly, a search of Messianism on the web will give more than ample evidence of the craziness that tries to glom onto our movement as well. But a simple search of scripture brings me back to where I belong ...
