Rules and Guidelines Question

[garrett]

Forgive my ignorance on this one.

Could someone explain to me exactly what this means? I think I have an idea but I'm not entirely sure (Alon?).

9. Please note that it is not permitted on this forum to attempt to spell out the sacred personal name of Adonai or teach people "Sacred Name" theology. For those interested in learning more about this subject...please see the following article:

Read more: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/2009/forum-rules-guidelines#ixzz3jOmgKuR8


I was assuming that it had to do with NOT writing the tetragrammaton......I wasn't able to access the given link.

Thanks! - garrett

[alon]

Aug 20, 2015 15:02:00 GMT -8 garrett said:

Could someone explain to me exactly what this means? I think I have an idea but I'm not entirely sure (Alon?).

9. Please note that it is not permitted on this forum to attempt to spell out the sacred personal name of Adonai or teach people "Sacred Name" theology. For those interested in learning more about this subject...please see the following article:

Read more: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/2009/forum-rules-guidelines#ixzz3jOmgKuR8

I was assuming that it had to do with NOT writing the tetragrammaton......I wasn't able to access the given link.

I couldn't get the link either. However as I recall it was mostly about the Sacred Names movement who, among other idiocies say you must write and pronounce the names of God correctly or you are not saved. They make nuisances of themselves everywhere they go trying to correct everyone and make sure you get it RIGHT! Typically they will pronounce the Tetragramaton YAHwey, and Yeshua is spelled Yehoshua and you better get it right!!! We here figure we serve a God who is smart enough to know who you mean. You may also use any of the other names for God, or spell it G-d, or say Jesus ... just so you accord the name you use the proper respect we are OK with it.

It is permitted to write the name YHVH, as long as done with the utmost respect. It is not permitted to tell others how to say the name.

You can spell the name Yeshua as I just did, or Yehoshua or Ye'shua; again with all the respect due to God. And again, you cannot school anyone how to say the name.

This is to keep the Sacred Name crazies from coming here and arguing; and it keeps us from going crazy and arguing about it too.

Dan C

edit: spelling out the name is the same as trying to school someone on how to say it. Let's take an example I disagree with, so I cannot "school" you- if I spell the name Yehoshua, then say(ye-HO-shu-ah), I have just told you how to pronounce the name. I was OK writing Yehoshua, but I went afoul of the rules when I told you in parenthesis how to say it. [and I neither write the name this way nor say it like that- this was for instructional purposes only. Telling you to say it the way I actually do, if not violating the rules would certainly push the envelope; and since I am held to a bit higher standard I'll just have to resist ... ]


Rule #10. Also, the Hebrew name of the Messiah should be spelled "Yeshua" or the possible variant of "Yehoshua". Any "Sacred Name" variations that find no authenticity in the scriptures or in history should not be used. Although we should ideally use the name "Yeshua"...the use of the name "Jesus" is permissable.

[garrett]

Thanks for the reply Alon-

Good grief, the lengths to which people will go.... not saved?

Yes, this is one instance where I stear clear of saying that name. It's understood among the orthodox and others to be sacred and wrong to say the Tetragrammaton. During any reading of the Sefer , they will refer to him as Adonai ("). I kind of like that. Baruch HaShem - Blessed be the Name (of G-d). It's nice to truly sanctify the Creator.

I could be wrong but my impression was that Yehoshua was a variant spelling of the name from Aramaic.

Thanks for clearing that up - garrett

[alon]

Aug 21, 2015 7:41:06 GMT -8 garrett said:

... Good grief, the lengths to which people will go.... not saved? ... I could be wrong but my impression was that Yehoshua was a variant spelling of the name from Aramaic. ...

You have no idea unless you've been "schooled" by them in person! I have been when I was trying to rescue a brother from their clutches- which I did, but I got quite an "education" along the way! I'm not sure I could teach you the verbal gymnastics required to say the names "correctly" via written medium even if I wanted to.

I don't know if Yehoshua is an Aramaic variation for Yeshua or not; however if you have evidence this is the case it is permissible to present that. In Hebrew it is the spelling of the name we say in English "Joshua." (I am allowed to tell you how to say that in either Hebrew or English if you want ... j/k) But when we get into discussing it as a name for moshiach we get into sort of a slippery slope. Suffice to say that Yehoshua (Joshua) is one of my favorite Bible characters, and was a great "type" of moshiach. So spelling "the name" thus is, to my mind anyhow, better than pronouncing Ya'akov "James." Yet I am sure that even then, contextually we'd all know who or what was meant. My wife and most of my friends say "Jesus," "James," and use the King "James" English names for all the Biblical characters, and I understand them and am not offended (the reverse is not usually the case, so I speak to them in their language and try not to feel too superior to them as I pity them ) ... (I wonder, should I start referring to the book of James as "Melech Ya'akov" ... Nah, that would confuse even the elect, who are members here I am sure ... ) No; best I think to just avoid names issues (unless I am feeling ornery next Sunday and try the "Melech Ya'akov" thing on my AoG friends ).

Dan (sayin' it wrong) C

edit: honestly, I could take the schooling on saying the names right; but I swear I'll NEVER sit through another of those ridiculous Michael Rood tapes again! He is their hero, which should give you some idea about where their head is at in the first place! Every time I tried to have a serious discussion with them they'd stick in another of those tapes and .

[garrett]

That's funny stuff. Talk about getting bogged down in some major distractions.

I don't have any concrete evidence regarding the "Aramaic variation". I just read about it in a few places long ago and my memory could serve me wrong. I will share if i do come across anything though.

[lou]

Is this in re: to the ancient Paleo-Hebrew alphabet? Or the black Israelite movement?

[alon]

Sept 8, 2015 21:32:59 GMT -8 lou said:

Is this in re: to the ancient Paleo-Hebrew alphabet? Or the black Israelite movement?

Discussion of different aleph-bets and/or different movements in the history of either the Jewish or Christian faiths is permitted, though if you want to do a serious study you should give references. Discussion of how any of these movements pronounced the names of YHVH or Yeshua would, unless you could make some case for the absolute necessity of this, be afoul of the rules. Even if necessary to make a point, the ruling will in all likelihood be that the point should be droped instead of getting into the pronunciation of the names. The post would be redacted and a note placed there that this was an illegal activity here while the use was under review, and almost certainly the redaction would be permanent. Discussion of how different letters were at different times and with the different aleph-bets likely pronounced is OK, just don't use any of the names of God as an example. Again it would be best to give references, as it would be difficult for us to know how things were said and done millennia in the past. There are however a lot of people out there who would like us to think they know these things.

We should all understand that putting something up here, especially a semi-scholarly study, your posts and findings may be challenged. (See my "Wrong" thread: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3384/out-wrong-thread ) Just keep the discussion civil (no "You IDIOT!" posts) and don't take it too personal- unless it is, then contact me. While on that subject, I am the only active moderator here right now, however I am not a law unto myself. If I get too far out of line, you may contact R Reuel and complain. He is a very busy man, so please don't bother him with petty things or problems I could resolve. However you do need to know that I cannot run roughshod over anyone. Not that I would- me being so nice and all.

We are here to learn, and we each bring different knowledge and areas of interest to the table. We may also be carrying a lot of baggage from our Christian upbringing or forays into Hebrew Roots, or just from trying to do this Messianic thing on our own. To me, learning I was wrong is as valuable as learning something right- just be ready to prove it. Again, be respectful when challenging someone's close held beliefs. They had the courage to put what they believed out there, and if you are never the one being challenged it just means you don't have as much backbone as they do. It is easy to hide in the dark and snipe at others, but getting into the "fight" (for the truth) is a different matter entirely!

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt.

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask for a ruling before you post.

Dan C

BTW: for those new here, blue is my "official voice," as per R Reuel's instructions. Hopefully the only time we'll see it is for instructional/informative posts like this; and not a lot of them I hope. The rules are pretty clear, but if you do have a question, ask.

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/2009/forum-rules-guidelines

[lou]

I was just curious as to what you guys were talking about. Needed clarification. Im not a fighter. Im a lover n peace maker. I am patient with my learning n that of others. Thank you for the clear outline of the rules n inforcing them diligently. I left a forum for the fights n attacks un attended too. Order n correction edifys n comforts.