Dead Sea Scrolls

[jimmie]

I have recently discovered that some of the Dead Sea Scrolls are not written in Hebrew. About 5% of the texts are in Koine Greek. Copies of the LXX Greek translaton were present. Other languages include Aramaic, Arabic, Latin(but no scripture in Latin). The Hebrew consits of three differnt scripts: Paleo(pictographs), Square(Babylonian/moderen) and Cryptic(forgien sembles used as hebrew letters)

[alon]

Apr 23, 2015 11:37:15 GMT -8 jimmie said:

I have recently discovered that some of the Dead Sea Scrolls are not written in Hebrew. About 5% of the texts are in Koine Greek. Copies of the LXX Greek translaton were present. Other languages include Aramaic, Arabic, Latin(but no scripture in Latin). The Hebrew consits of three differnt scripts: Paleo(pictographs), Square(Babylonian/moderen) and Cryptic(forgien sembles used as hebrew letters)

Yes, the Qumran Scrolls and other artifacts are an eclectic collection dating from about the third cen BCE to the 1st cen CE. The Essene sect is generally given credit for these documents and artifacts, though of course academia is far from unified in this assessment. The tefillin I make for our synagogue are based on artifacts found there. There were 981 different texts found in caves in the West Bank region just over a mile inland of the Dead Sea. These include the second oldest known manuscripts of texts of the TNK, as well as many deuterocanonical books and extra-biblical religious manuscripts. Most are in Hebrew, but some are different dialects of Aramaic, a few are Greek, and if some from the Judean desert are included a few documents (but no scripture) are in Latin as well. They were written on different mediums, mostly papyrus.

Dan C

edit: the collection dates to this time period; many of the Hebrew and Aramaic texts are much older.

[alon]

I've been debating how much of this to put up, because it is very controversial to both Christianity and Judaism. However the Dead Sea Scrolls shed light on the 1st cen CE that flies in the face of all we are told. The forms of both Christianity and Judaism which survived the uprising in 67 CE were the only forms Rome would tolerate. They are religions of appeasement and even cooperating with the evils of pagan Rome. However the scrolls at Qumran show a form of both religions more in line with the Book of James. Uncompromising adherence to the Law. This is why those at Qumran were killed off, just like those at Masada. And like at Masada their writings were left because there was no one else to come retrieve them. These texts tell of a militant Messiah in the time of Yeshua, although they do not refer to Him (or anyone else) by name. A Yeshua more like the one who cleared the moneychangers from the Temple. They also tell of an Israel divided by those who would appease Rome and those who stood against foreign rule and pagan practices.

This has been kept from the world for a half century since their discovery by Rome. Since most of these caves were in Muslim controlled areas, the only archaeologists allowed to excavate Qumran were French Dominican priests from the Ecole Biblique, all ardent Catholics. Rome kept these secret amidst much controversy while they perpetuated the lie of a pre-Christian celibate monastery at Qumran. They are also accused of removing documents which disagree outright with their interpretation of scripture. However, to do so completely would have almost striped Qumran bare!

Many of the writings at Qumran resemble those of James the Just, brother of Yeshua. They use the same terminology to refer to the “Community of the Righteous Teacher” as is used to refer to the community of James. This, is not early Christianity as we know it. These are early Palestinian Christians. There is a vast difference between the Christians of fact and those of faith. This sounds more and more like the Nots’rim. These people, especially James, did not see themselves as a separate church. Their only difference with other Jews was that they hoped for the return of Yeshua as Messiah

The Dead Sea Scrolls don’t give specific events, but do give the mood of the country at the time. “On the march to battle they should write on their standards ‘The Truth of God, the War of God, the Vengance of God, the Trial of God, the Reward of God, the Power of God’”This is an uncompromising, God intoxicated group. They have pious righteousness and indignation, and will never compromise.

Without Qumran, we are left with a whitewashed version of Yeshua, one who always turns the other cheek and renders unto Rome. But still, there is the uncompromising Yeshua who, like those at Masada and Qumran and across Palestine refused to yield. An uncompromising Jesus at odds with the powers that be. One who challenged the priests and their Roman masters, going to His death rather than yield to a pagan court. This is a lost legacy in these days of compromise and correctness. It is why the dragon of Rev 12 will sweep 1/3rd of the true believers down to Sheol with him in the end. They will compromise, and they will perish. It is what they are trained to do.

Dan C

[garrett]

Along this train of thought...Has anyone ever known what became of the whereabouts of the original gospels, epistles, etc.? If I missed the answer to this in any previous threads I apologize.

It's just amazing that the Dead Sea Scrolls revealed so many books of the the Tanakh, the oldest to date, and a further validation of the originality of the scriptures.

What would have become of Paul's original writings for instance?

[alon]

Sept 4, 2015 5:41:04 GMT -8 garrett said:

Along this train of thought...Has anyone ever known what became of the whereabouts of the original gospels, epistles, etc.? If I missed the answer to this in any previous threads I apologize.

It's just amazing that the Dead Sea Scrolls revealed so many books of the the Tanakh, the oldest to date, and a further validation of the originality of the scriptures.

What would have become of Paul's original writings for instance?

The Qumran scrolls were sealed in jars and hidden in caves in an arid part of the country. They were not exposed to the elements or to excessive handling. Even then many of these documents were lost, destroyed. Some exist only as fragments. Writing mediums of the time were extremely fragile.

The epistles, or letters which later became the "New Testament" were just as fragile, and they were passed from synagogue to synagogue, read and reread and filed for use, not for storage. Even then copies might have survived, however there is evidence the catholic (universal) church from its inception pursued a policy of violently exorcising every vestige of Judaism from its new religion. These epistles were seized, copied to pagan Greek and probably destroyed or simply thrown out as garbage. The Nots'rim who would have still held copies in Hebrew were persecuted to extinction, their synagogues where these documents would have been kept were burned, along with the contents. So what has survived is the over 5700 Greek transliterations of documents and some fragments, most of which disagree to varying extents.

I asked someone who'd been with Wycliffe translators point blank how they decided what was the truth when confronted with discrepancies in several documents. The answer: primarily they go back to the Old Testament, particularly the and see which agrees. Yet they still hold their New Testament to be a higher authority than the Old. Go figure. Not to put them down completely. These translators face a daunting task sorting through all these documents and discerning the truth, then transliterating so that we can understand what is said. I know from my wife's Moody courses that there are different methodologies and different source documents preferred by different schools of translation; yet they all seem to come up with reasonably similar Bibles. Even so, often the translators theologies, their agendas and their training show through in their work. It is the standards for copying religious documents went over to pagan Greek, where accuracy was not only not valued as with Hebrew, but was anathema to their way of religious thought. However due in large part to the diligence of most modern translators as well as to the fact God is able to guard His word, His truth is still there if we care to read with open eyes and sometimes dig a bit to discern what is said.

Dan C

[garrett]

You make a good point...In one of the letters from Paul I saw that he basically said, "make sure everyone reads this, pass it around." So I can see how these written items would just wither over time.

Wouldn't it be interesting to find an adequately preserved scroll or at least a fragment hidden in some jar in a cave somewhere...two thousand years after the fact, again.

[alon]

Sept 5, 2015 15:57:10 GMT -8 garrett said:

You make a good point...In one of the letters from Paul I saw that he basically said, "make sure everyone reads this, pass it around." So I can see how these written items would just wither over time.

Wouldn't it be interesting to find an adequately preserved scroll or at least a fragment hidden in some jar in a cave somewhere...two thousand years after the fact, again.

Indeed! And wouldn't you just love to be on the dig when they were found! Add to this that there must be many more letters that were lost entirely; imagine finding some of these written in Rav Sha'ul's own hand!

We do have Hebrew copies of Matthew; though since notes were made within the text they are not considered to be "authentic." Shem Tov's is the best, and is accurate. The church fathers also made reference to the Nots'rim having copies of these letters in Hebrew, and we do still have those writings.

The letters were called 'encyclicals' because they were meant to be passed on and copied and read in synagogues everywhere. However the notions that they were meant for everyone to read and that they were sent to the 'churches' are patently false! They were meant for the leadership in the Nots'rim synagogues, and no one else. They wouldn't have survived one reading if everyone in the synagogue were to get a turn at the letters. Furthermore they had to be vetted, as there were many letters written and many heresies being espoused at the time. No Rabbi worth the title, no Chazzan or other synagogue official would read a letter to the congregation or allow it to be released without first comparing it to . And when the pagan church officials got ahold of any of these letters they immediately rewrote it in Greek, willfully changing the text to suit themselves and their doctrines. So they were not willingly shared with the 'church.'

Just my understanding. There is at least one thread here (somewhere) which addresses the distribution of these letters.

Dan C

[garrett]

Thanks Alon - if you should find which thread addresses these letters, could you please let me know?

Thanks!

[miykhael613]

B"H
Maybe you might find this interesting? www.torahresource.com/Dutillet.html
One problem on having original copies is people would worship copies of the writings, instead of HaShem.

Miykhael, מיכאל

[garrett]

Thank you miykhael - I will enjoy looking at this resource site.

I don't think I'd end up in worship over writings themselves, I think it would bolster my belief and trust!


Thanks again.

[alon]

Sept 8, 2015 6:57:51 GMT -8 garrett said:

Thanks Alon - if you should find which thread addresses these letters, could you please let me know?

Thanks!

Here's the only two I can think of. You'll have to dig a bit to find where the encyclicals were discussed.

Korbanos

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3374/korbanos

Galations- what's wrong here?

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3329/galations-wrong

Dan C

edit: Those were some old posts- from back before I was on staff! You really had me dig for them ...

[garrett]

And I thank you!!!