Separate Seating

[alon]

Apr 16, 2015 5:09:21 GMT -8 jimmie said:

Apr 15, 2015 15:06:28 GMT -8 alon said:

Separating because of nationality (race), age and economic (social) status would obviously be wrong. Lumping segregation by gender in with these makes it look bad by association.

Is the writer of Gal 3:28 making one of the items listed look bad by association?

Gal. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek(race), there is neither bond nor free(economic), there is neither male nor female(gender): for ye are all one in Christ Jesus

However to separate by gender (sex) is a tradition for which we've given some very good reasons.

I will always closely examine traditions of men.

As well you should. We all should. And we should also examine man's interpretations of scripture as well. Take Gal. 3:28 as a case in point. MainC interprets it as you do, saying there is now no difference in anyone and the Jews are now the same as the Greeks. Obviously wrong, there are slaves even to this day and there are most definitely two very basic models of humans. Men and women are not only different physically but they think differently and act differently. So if the p'shat seems to contradict fact, we must look for the meaning in allegory or get our own facts straight. What this verse is saying is that in salvation there is no difference. We all stand equal before God. We have only to read in context with discerning minds instead of the scaly eyes which are our inheritance from mainC to see the truth.

Galatians 3:25-29 (ESV) But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Apr 16, 2015 5:44:32 GMT -8 jimmie said:

So right after I posted the above post, the Spirit brought to my remembrance Miriam’s song:
Ex 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.
This is as clear an example of segregation by gender that can probably be found in scripture. I will go think on this for a while.

Yes, it is one place. Priests and later clergy are also segregated Biblically, as these roles were set aside for men. Yet Miriam was a prophetess. So again, I can't point you to anything in the Bible where segregation is either commanded or absolutely enforced. It is a tradition to segregate congregations. However not all traditions are bad, and some like this one may be just a matter of preference. But I can tell you from growing up strict Southern Baptist, where women were dressed modestly, and being in churches right up to today; the sanctuary on Sunday morning is always THE most difficult place for most men not to lust after the women. Today especially where you typically see women dressed very immodestly. On the other hand, by seating families together children are with their father who SHOULD (again today this is not always the case) take firmer control of their behavior. So there are arguments both ways. And frankly, segregated seating is not the deciding factor for where I fellowship. But when the issue does come up if we ever get to where we can segregate in our synagogue, I'll support it. Will I quit if I loose? No. I'll just try and keep my focus on the Rabbi and on God, where it belongs.

Dan C

[Loxody]

Sar Shalom Synagogue in Lewisville, Texas has three separate seating sections: single men, single women, and families. Couples who are not yet married may not sit in the family section.


UPDATE:  Sar Shalom Synagogue has now moved to Saginaw, Texas where they acquired a building for their synagogue and will be the first Messianic Jewish community in the Dallas-Fort Worth area to have a Kosher mikveh.

[Loxody]

Isn't the Sabbath listed as the first feast?

No, actually Rosh Chodesh is.

[alon]

Oct 5, 2016 6:20:17 GMT -8 Loxody said:

Isn't the Sabbath listed as the first feast?

No, actually Rosh Chodesh is.

I think what is meant as the "first feast" by the poster is that Shabbat was the first of the moedim, the appointed times of Elohim that we are to keep. Shabbat was established at creation, when Elohim rested for one day:

Genesis 2:2-3 (ESV) And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.  So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

Of course, Hashem didn't need the rest, we did:

Mark 2:27 (ESV) And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Dan C

[Loxody]

I think what is meant as the "first feast" by the poster is that Shabbat was the first of the moedim, the appointed times of Elohim that we are to keep. Shabbat was established at creation, when Elohim rested for one day:

Genesis 2:2-3 (ESV) And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

Of course, Hashem didn't need the rest, we did:

Mark 2:27 (ESV) And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Dan C

No, actually Rosh Chodesh is an appointed time, and came first.

G-d created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh.
The very first day of Creation was the very first day of the month (most likely either Tishrei or Nisan) - Rosh Chodesh.

Plus, before the command of keeping Shabbat was given, this command was given:

Now Adonai spoke to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
“This month will mark the beginning of months for you; it is to be the first month of the year for you.
Exodus 12:1-2 TLV

Many people don't realize it, but Rosh Chodesh actually came first!

[alon]

Oct 5, 2016 14:52:12 GMT -8 Loxody said:

No, actually Rosh Chodesh is an appointed time, and came first.

G-d created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh.
The very first day of Creation was the very first day of the month (most likely either Tishrei or Nisan) - Rosh Chodesh.

Plus, before the command of keeping Shabbat was given, this command was given:

Now Adonai spoke to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
“This month will mark the beginning of months for you; it is to be the first month of the year for you.
Exodus 12:1-2 TLV

Many people don't realize it, but Rosh Chodesh actually came first!

The quote you gave actually refers to Pesach. Read in context:

Exodus 12:1-8 (ESV) The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt,  “This month shall be for you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year for you.  Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month every man shall take a lamb according to their fathers' houses, a lamb for a household.  And if the household is too small for a lamb, then he and his nearest neighbor shall take according to the number of persons; according to what each can eat you shall make your count for the lamb.  Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats, 6 and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight. [Hebrew between the two evenings]  “Then they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. 8 They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted on the fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it.

Another meaning of moedim is "Elohim's set apart times." He declared Shabbat "holy"- set apart to Himself. We take this to be a commandment to keep that day set apart to Hashem. Rosh Chodesh is also a set apart time, however it was not the first. It is not even the first "new year" on the Hebrew calendar, as it begins the seventh month, the month of Tishrei. The "beginning of months" is Nissan, the month in which Passover falls.

As you probably are aware, there are actually four "new years" in the Judaic calendar:

The four Jewish new years specified in Mishnah Rosh Hashanah 1:1 are:

- 1 Tishri, beginning of the civil calendar; for setting the Jubilee year; for figuring the yearly tithe (ma’aser) on vegetables and grains;, also the new year for measuring the reigns of foreign kings

- 15 Shevat, new year for trees; now a minor holiday, Tu Bishevat

- 1 Nisan, redemption from Egypt and the birth of the nation; also the new year for the reigns of Jewish kings

- 1 Elul, new year for the tithing of cattle

That Pesach does not occur on the first day of Nissan is thought to mean all the moedim are tied to this first new year of 1 Nissan. But before all other moedim and all other new years and heads of months, there was Shabbat.

Dan C

[rivkah]

Just a note on seating as my husband and I go to Hasidic shul just about every week. True that some Shuls seat women behind but not always...it's really wherever the building allows. The thing I dont like though is most Shuls...you can barley see anything where the men - the , etc. are (unless they use something like reversed mirrors where you can see though but men cannot see the women). Also, I have been to some Shuls, though not all, who dont serve kiddish to the women.

In Hasidic life...women rarely go to shul unless for a brief time or if it is a high holy day.

[garrett]

Oct 9, 2016 5:05:26 GMT -8 rivkah said:

Just a note on seating as my husband and I go to Hasidic shul just about every week. True that some Shuls seat women behind but not always...it's really wherever the building allows. The thing I dont like though is most Shuls...you can barley see anything where the men - the , etc. are (unless they use something like reversed mirrors where you can see though but men cannot see the women). Also, I have been to some Shuls, though not all, who dont serve kiddish to the women.

In Hasidic life...women rarely go to shul unless for a brief time or if it is a high holy day.

Yes, I've wondered about the differences among the Hasidim. Thanks.

Good to hear from you rivka.

garrett