Why the Separation?

[Miykhael]

B”H
Why was Shaul/Paul flogged/whipped 5 times? Wasn’t it to allow him to continue to fellowship with his brothers in the Shul/Synagogue? Remember the same people that killed to prophets in the past that came to them. So to we would experience persecution in the same way one would imagine. When Yeshua came, He didn’t come start to something New. When Messianic separate themselves for worship, how are we to provoke them to Jealousy? And the next question is jealousy what does that mean? Does it mean someone else have something you want? Just a few more questions to think about..

Sure you will always find someone that does not believe.

[alon]

Apr 5, 2015 9:23:07 GMT -8 Miykhael said:

B”H
Why was Shaul/Paul flogged/whipped 5 times? Wasn’t it to allow him to continue to fellowship with his brothers in the Shul/Synagogue? Remember the same people that killed to prophets in the past that came to them. So to we would experience persecution in the same way one would imagine. When Yeshua came, He didn’t come start to something New. When Messianic separate themselves for worship, how are we to provoke them to Jealousy? And the next question is jealousy what does that mean? Does it mean someone else have something you want? Just a few more questions to think about..

Sure you will always find someone that does not believe.

It does sound like you are saying to go and preach Yeshua in mainstream Judaic shuls. This would be a disruption any way you slice it. And sure, you are going to find that most if not all not only won't believe but now are more alienated than before you came in.

2 Corinthians 11:23-25 (NASB) Are they servants of Christ?—I speak as if insane—I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep.

This is part of a very long winded darash (I still say Paul was a Baptist) about some who were boasting and apparently making themselves out to be just short of martyrs. He was in effect saying "If you ain't been where I been you ain't been at all; so shut up!" Why was he beaten? He doesn't say, but we can presume it was because he was preaching the gospel to those who didn't like it. Probably Jews because 40 was the max number of lashes allowed by law. But this was written in 57 CE, which was before the Bar Kochba Revolt and the destruction of the Temple. Jewish believers were still allowed in Jewish Synagogues. Being Rav Sha'ul he probably went on and on and they figured the only way to shut him up was to beat him- and I'm only half joking there! But he was called to take the gospel to more places and people than any other. He had a passion and boldness like no other, especially for and with the Jewish people. He was fearless in spreading the gospel.

But if you are thinking you have a calling like Rav Sha'ul, I'd encourage you to read 2 Corinthians 10 & 11, then count the cost. Because going into a Synagogue and preaching Yeshua won't make them jealous; it'll make them angry.

Romans 11:11 (YLT) I say, then, Did they stumble that they might fall? let it not be! but by their fall the salvation [is] to the nations, to arouse them to jealousy;

What this means has been the topic of debates and inspiration for sermons too many to count! I don't know exactly; but I can tell you that the modern Messianic movement has made more Jews jealous in its @80 yrs than all of Christianity has in its 2000+ yrs! Jealouse of their traditions and customs, sure- but also of the ! We are told not to keep , just the Noachide covenant! Well, I am sorry but God authored , and the Noachide Covenant is found not in scripture but in the Talmud. The Talmud is mans commentary on scripture, but it is not scripture. God said do it; He didn't say just the Jews were to do it; there are no time limits on doing it. So we do it. And believe me, that does make many of them jealous! If you don't believe me, go lurk on some of their discussion boards. But please be respectful of them as you wish them to be if they come here. You're supposed to make them jealous; not angry, put off and alienated. And that goes for their Synagogues as well. Nowhere are you told to disrupt their worship or to anger them, to be rude or disrespectful. Like I said, make friends and/or talk with those God puts in your path.

If you do desire to worship with them for some reason, and if there is no Messianic congregation near you that may be your best option, then do so quietly, reverently, respectfully and be honest with them about who you are and why you desire to worship there. Ask the Rabbi what you can and can not do ( for example he'll probably want you to wear a kippah, but not a tallit- or especially not tie tzitzith to your belt loops). Be humble. Be bold with the word when and if asked, but know when to stop as well.

You also seem to be implying that we should all go to Jewish as opposed to Messianic synagogues to worship. To that I'd say absolutely not! If that is your calling, then fine. If by necessity that is the only way you can learn about Judaism, fine. If that is the only place you can truly worship, fine. As long as they know who you are and allow you to be there. But to suddenly overrun their synagogues with a bunch of confused Gentiles in various stages of transition to Messianism would be as insane as it would be counterproductive.