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Post by alon on Aug 26, 2014 22:00:11 GMT -8
20. It is a negative commandment to have no mercy on idol worshipers.
D’varim 7:2 (OJB) thou shalt make no Brit with them, nor show mercy unto them;
Deuteronomy 7:2 (CJB) Do not make any covenant with them. Show them no mercy.
If someone sees an idol worshiper drowning, he is not to save him. In his illness, he is not to cure him. … It is, however forbidden to end his life with one’s own hands … if the other makes no hostile act against him. One is not to give him any free gift, nor is one to speak his praise ….
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Post by alon on Aug 26, 2014 22:01:24 GMT -8
The full scripture, in context reads:
Deuteronomy 7:1 "ADONAI your God is going to bring you into the land you will enter in order to take possession of it, and he will expel many nations ahead of you -the Hitti, Girgashi, Emori, Kena'ani, P'rizi, Hivi and Y'vusi, seven nations bigger and stronger than you. 2 When he does this, when ADONAI your God hands them over ahead of you, and you defeat them, you are to destroy them completely! Do not make any covenant with them. Show them no mercy.
So again we see this one part of a verse is taken out of context to support something it clearly does not say. I know that in Judaic thought there are methods of extrapolating parts of verses or passages to get entirely different messages from it. However we (and they) need to be careful not to go too far.
I suspect this one came out of the enmity and outright hatred that grew between early (and later) Christianity and Judaism. It is a reaction to the violence done against the Jews by those claiming the name of Christ. That doesn’t make it right, however.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Aug 26, 2014 22:03:54 GMT -8
Now the original scripture taken in context is still true and I think a valid mitzvah can be made of it. Possibly:
It is a positive commandment that when Adonai your Eloheicha hands you an idolatrous enemy, you are to be ruthless, show him no mercy, attack and destroy both him and his message.
Whether in the courts, in business or in daily conversation whenever you get the chance and God gives you the victory, go for the jugular! Do not back away or show him mercy! It is however forbidden to physically harm him unless he first attacks you, or shows the signs of an imminent attack.
Remember the mitzvoth on dealing fairly in business are still in effect. However others, especially pagans do not always deal fairly with you. You are not to be afraid to call them on their unfair practices, tell them they are in error. This is a positive witness that you deal fairly but are not easy prey to their tactics, as the Lord your God defends your comings and goings, your business and your leisure times.
Dan C
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Post by Questor on Aug 27, 2014 16:31:50 GMT -8
Now the original scripture taken in context is still true and I think a valid mitzvah can be made of it. Possibly:It is a positive commandment that when Adonai your Eloheicha hands you an idolatrous enemy, you are to be ruthless, show him no mercy, attack and destroy both him and his message.
Whether in the courts, in business or in daily conversation whenever you get the chance and God gives you the victory, go for the jugular! Do not back away or show him mercy! It is however forbidden to physically harm him unless he first attacks you, or shows the signs of an imminent attack.
Remember the mitzvoth on dealing fairly in business are still in effect. However others, especially pagans do not always deal fairly with you. You are not to be afraid to call them on their unfair practices, tell them they are in error. This is a positive witness that you deal fairly but are not easy prey to their tactics, as the Lord your God defends your comings and goings, your business and your leisure times.Dan C
There is something wrong with me, then...I keep following the part about,
Romans 12:18-19 (CJB)
18 If possible, and to the extent that it depends on you, live in peace with all people.
19 Never seek revenge, my friends; instead, leave that to God’s anger; for in the Tanakh it is written, “Adonai says, ‘Vengeance is my responsibility; I will repay.’”
20 On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing this, you will heap fiery coals [of  ] on his head.”
21 Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.
It is true though that I will fight in a court, if attacked. As for business, I am a little too lax on holding them to their agreements...there is no way to force them to do their side of the contract without wasting a lot of money on attorneys, so I let people get away with things too much, I guess..
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Post by alon on Aug 27, 2014 18:48:16 GMT -8
Now the original scripture taken in context is still true and I think a valid mitzvah can be made of it. Possibly:It is a positive commandment that when Adonai your Eloheicha hands you an idolatrous enemy, you are to be ruthless, show him no mercy, attack and destroy both him and his message.
Whether in the courts, in business or in daily conversation whenever you get the chance and God gives you the victory, go for the jugular! Do not back away or show him mercy! It is however forbidden to physically harm him unless he first attacks you, or shows the signs of an imminent attack.
Remember the mitzvoth on dealing fairly in business are still in effect. However others, especially pagans do not always deal fairly with you. You are not to be afraid to call them on their unfair practices, tell them they are in error. This is a positive witness that you deal fairly but are not easy prey to their tactics, as the Lord your God defends your comings and goings, your business and your leisure times.Dan C
There is something wrong with me, then...I keep following the part about,
Romans 12:18-19 (CJB)
18 If possible, and to the extent that it depends on you, live in peace with all people.
19 Never seek revenge, my friends; instead, leave that to God’s anger; for in the Tanakh it is written, “Adonai says, ‘Vengeance is my responsibility; I will repay.’”
20 On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing this, you will heap fiery coals [of ] on his head.”
21 Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.
It is true though that I will fight in a court, if attacked. As for business, I am a little too lax on holding them to their agreements...there is no way to force them to do their side of the contract without wasting a lot of money on attorneys, so I let people get away with things too much, I guess..
Dan C
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Post by alon on Aug 28, 2014 10:19:23 GMT -8
The haftorah last week talked a little along these lines we are discussing:
Isaiah 54: 11 "Storm-ravaged [city], unconsoled, I will set your stones in the finest way, lay your foundations with sapphires, 12 make your windows shine with rubies, your gates with garnet, your walls with gemstones. 13 All your children will be taught by ADONAI; your children will have great peace. 14 In righteousness you will be established, far from oppression, with nothing to fear; far from ruin, for it will not come near you. 15 Any alliance that forms against you will not be my doing; whoever tries to form such an alliance will fall because of you. 16 It is I who created the craftsman who blows on the coals and forges weapons suited to their purpose; I also created the destroyer to work havoc. 17 No weapon made will prevail against you. In court you will refute every accusation. The servants of ADONAI inherit all this; the reward for their righteousness is from me," says ADONAI.
But we must stand and claim the victory. The alliances fall because of us, and that no weapons prevail against us implies a defense rather than a surrender in the name of "peace." Once war is shouted by one side, peace only comes when one side destroys the others means and/or will to fight. God says He will do this for us, but we must stand firm and trust Him. Otherwise we have no will and the battle is lost before it is engaged.
Look at Israel, outnumbered thousands to one, surrounded by enemies; even enemies living within her borders. Yet she stands strong in the face of constant war. No one can doubt that God fights for Israel. Neither can anyone doubt that Israel fights for herself in the name of God. We must look our enemy in the eye and not back down in order to claim the victories God gives us, and never be ashamed to say to all present it was God who won the battle for you.
Dan C
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Post by Questor on Aug 28, 2014 14:31:07 GMT -8
The haftorah last week talked a little along these lines we are discussing:Isaiah 54: 11 "Storm-ravaged [city], unconsoled, I will set your stones in the finest way, lay your foundations with sapphires, 12 make your windows shine with rubies, your gates with garnet, your walls with gemstones. 13 All your children will be taught by ADONAI; your children will have great peace. 14 In righteousness you will be established, far from oppression, with nothing to fear; far from ruin, for it will not come near you. 15 Any alliance that forms against you will not be my doing; whoever tries to form such an alliance will fall because of you. 16 It is I who created the craftsman who blows on the coals and forges weapons suited to their purpose; I also created the destroyer to work havoc. 17 No weapon made will prevail against you. In court you will refute every accusation. The servants of ADONAI inherit all this; the reward for their righteousness is from me," says ADONAI.But we must stand and claim the victory. The alliances fall because of us, and that no weapons prevail against us implies a defense rather than a surrender in the name of "peace." Once war is shouted by one side, peace only comes when one side destroys the others means and/or will to fight. God says He will do this for us, but we must stand firm and trust Him. Otherwise we have no will and the battle is lost before it is engaged.
Look at Israel, outnumbered thousands to one, surrounded by enemies; even enemies living within her borders. Yet she stands strong in the face of constant war. No one can doubt that God fights for Israel. Neither can anyone doubt that Israel fights for herself in the name of God. We must look our enemy in the eye and not back down in order to claim the victories God gives us, and never be ashamed to say to all present it was God who won the battle for you.
Dan C
Truth.
However, my battles seem to be mostly done within my mind as my body wars against my inner self, aided by the Ruach. I stand against the enemy that is myself, and the Adversary who stirs rebellion up in me, but in this, only the Ruach can enable me to win. I do what it is that I can do, then toss the remainder to G-d, and stand.
Should, however, the battle come physically to my door, or my community, I will fight physical manifestations of evil with equal resolve, but only in the Ruach will that make a difference.
Even so, I will fight those that come against Believers, and bystanders locally, to the last drop of my blood. I do not value my life that much, when I know I have so much a better life to live with Yehoshua. |
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- there are 70 faces to 
] on his head.” 
