|
|
Post by Frank T. Clark on Aug 22, 2014 12:58:24 GMT -8
I use the Hilel calendar as this is what most are used to. I do think the calendar should be based on the aviv barley. However there is always disagreement on the start of the new year, the aviv stage and even the new moon. So I simplify things and go with the majority. However I do not agree with those who want to base prophecy on the Hillel system or that say this is the correct calendar. Until the Temple is rebuilt and the priesthood reestablished in Jerusalem, I just have to go with what we got but ignore things like this "Blood Moon" nonsense going on right now. But I would be interested in your ideas on the calendar. You seem to be agreeing with my point that the MJ is not practicing full obedience to every detail of what God says. Those who are not afraid to study beyond the bounds of their tradition discover there is a great deal of disagreement about God's Sacred Calendar. The importance of this issue is this. The first day of the week is not the seventh day of the week, which God has commanded we are to cease work and gather together in worship to Him. Acknowledging "there is always disagreement on the start of the new year, the aviv stage and even the new moon." is not an excuse for ignoring the issue of worship on the wrong day, for which we criticize those who observe the first day of the week. We can be sympathetic and work within the limitations of the majority but I believe we must seek to improve our knowledge and understanding now and not depend on some future event we expect. As we learn we will share with others who are also seeking. I sense a seeker in you and that is why I risk peace to share with you. I hope others are also interested. This could be an interesting discussion topic but is very risky to peace. I am eager to hear response. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Aug 22, 2014 13:10:53 GMT -8
I use the Hilel calendar as this is what most are used to. I do think the calendar should be based on the aviv barley. However there is always disagreement on the start of the new year, the aviv stage and even the new moon. So I simplify things and go with the majority. However I do not agree with those who want to base prophecy on the Hillel system or that say this is the correct calendar. Until the Temple is rebuilt and the priesthood reestablished in Jerusalem, I just have to go with what we got but ignore things like this "Blood Moon" nonsense going on right now. But I would be interested in your ideas on the calendar. You seem to be agreeing with my point that the MJ is not practicing full obedience to every detail of what God says. Those who are not afraid to study beyond the bounds of their tradition discover there is a great deal of disagreement about God's Sacred Calendar. The importance of this issue is this. The first day of the week is not the seventh day of the week, which God has commanded we are to cease work and gather together in worship to Him. Acknowledging "there is always disagreement on the start of the new year, the aviv stage and even the new moon." is not an excuse for ignoring the issue of worship on the wrong day, for which we criticize those who observe the first day of the week. We can be sympathetic and work within the limitations of the majority but I believe we must seek to improve our knowledge and understanding now and not depend on some future event we expect. As we learn we will share with others who are also seeking. I sense a seeker in you and that is why I risk peace to share with you. I hope others are also interested. This could be an interesting discussion topic but is very risky to peace. I am eager to hear response.
Another issue is naming days and months, something we both still do as a matter of convenience when dealing with others. God only named one day, His day; and He counted days and months rather than name them. We can discuss any of these issues if you want to open a thread on them.
And I'm not so easily offended as to get angry with someone who apparently agrees with me on these issues! 
Dan C
|
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Aug 22, 2014 21:08:53 GMT -8
You seem to be agreeing with my point that the MJ is not practicing full obedience to every detail of what God says. Those who are not afraid to study beyond the bounds of their tradition discover there is a great deal of disagreement about God's Sacred Calendar. The importance of this issue is this. The first day of the week is not the seventh day of the week, which God has commanded we are to cease work and gather together in worship to Him. Acknowledging "there is always disagreement on the start of the new year, the aviv stage and even the new moon." is not an excuse for ignoring the issue of worship on the wrong day, for which we criticize those who observe the first day of the week. We can be sympathetic and work within the limitations of the majority but I believe we must seek to improve our knowledge and understanding now and not depend on some future event we expect. As we learn we will share with others who are also seeking. I sense a seeker in you and that is why I risk peace to share with you. I hope others are also interested. This could be an interesting discussion topic but is very risky to peace. I am eager to hear response.
Another issue is naming days and months, something we both still do as a matter of convenience when dealing with others. God only named one day, His day; and He counted days and months rather than name them. We can discuss any of these issues if you want to open a thread on them.
And I'm not so easily offended as to get angry with someone who apparently agrees with me on these issues!
Dan C
However, I don't really think I can manage to quickly start calling Sundays First Day, and Mondays Second Day, as the Quaker's do...I don't think I could keep track!
|
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Aug 22, 2014 21:39:47 GMT -8
Yes, that can be tough when on a forum with a set of rules which they enforce regarding doctrines and teachings that don't line up with MJ. And I can see how you might feel excluded from discussion at times. However I've been on forums which allow pretty much anything. They quickly become sewers of Ebionism, Dispensationalism, mainC coming on to tell us how we are all heretics for being TO, even Jews telling us we should not go past the Noahide Laws. So while you may feel somewhat excluded, I'd say count your blessings that this is a heavily moderated forum. It's just downright ugly on the rest of the net!
In closing, I generally enjoy your posts. I appreciate your restraint on controversy, but there is still much you can discuss that is not controversial, and in fact may not be too far off from, if not right in line with MJ! And that comment was not meant to question your salvation (meaning you wouldn't be a brother) nor to say you had to be MJ to fellowship either here, or if you were ever to visit, in my synagogue in person! But if you don't like being called a ger toshav- sorry, but by definition we both are, even though we both are on different paths.
Dan C
edit: regarding the forum being moderated; I'm getting an education right now on the ratio of people who apply here to fellowship and those who wish to come here for apparently (and sometimes admittedly!) nefarious purposes. As I've said many times, you wouldn't want an unmoderated forum.
 Observant, but what is the difference between that and ger tzedek*, when we are both of us saved, and tzedek in Yehoshua? Does one need to convert to Talmudic Messianic Judaism to be considered saved now?!!!
*ger toshav- TO Messianic proselyte or just TO- probably saved?
*ger tzedek- TO Messianic- saved
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Aug 22, 2014 23:48:42 GMT -8
Yes, that can be tough when on a forum with a set of rules which they enforce regarding doctrines and teachings that don't line up with MJ. And I can see how you might feel excluded from discussion at times. However I've been on forums which allow pretty much anything. They quickly become sewers of Ebionism, Dispensationalism, mainC coming on to tell us how we are all heretics for being TO, even Jews telling us we should not go past the Noahide Laws. So while you may feel somewhat excluded, I'd say count your blessings that this is a heavily moderated forum. It's just downright ugly on the rest of the net!
In closing, I generally enjoy your posts. I appreciate your restraint on controversy, but there is still much you can discuss that is not controversial, and in fact may not be too far off from, if not right in line with MJ! And that comment was not meant to question your salvation (meaning you wouldn't be a brother) nor to say you had to be MJ to fellowship either here, or if you were ever to visit, in my synagogue in person! But if you don't like being called a ger toshav- sorry, but by definition we both are, even though we both are on different paths.
Dan C
edit: regarding the forum being moderated; I'm getting an education right now on the ratio of people who apply here to fellowship and those who wish to come here for apparently (and sometimes admittedly!) nefarious purposes. As I've said many times, you wouldn't want an unmoderated forum.
*ger toshav- TO Messianic proselyte or just TO- probably saved?
*ger tzedek- TO Messianic- saved
The big difference in the two, since you asked is not their salvation but to please Elohim; to worship Him as He said to, as He wants us to. However before anyone gets all beside themselves and takes a swing at me- many due to circumstances can NOT become ger toshav. Some don't have a good, knowledgeable Rabbi or a congregation who can lead us through the process. I myself am limited because of my wife. I just do as much as possible to become ger toshav, but may never get there. That and my health- I cnat' rmebembr what ... what? ... uh ...
C  Dan
|
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Aug 23, 2014 0:34:14 GMT -8
I don't in the least mind being a ger toshav, a saved gentile who is Observant, but what is the difference between that and ger tzedek*, when we are both of us saved, and tzedek in Yehoshua? Does one need to convert to Talmudic Messianic Judaism to be considered saved now?!!!
*ger toshav- TO Messianic proselyte or just TO- probably saved?
*ger tzedek- TO Messianic- saved
The big difference in the two, since you asked is not their salvation but to please Elohim; to worship Him as He said to, as He wants us to. However before anyone gets all beside themselves and takes a swing at me- many due to circumstances can NOT become ger toshav. Some don't have a good, knowledgeable Rabbi or a congregation who can lead us through the process. I myself am limited because of my wife. I just do as much as possible to become ger toshav, but may never get there. That and my health- I cnat' rmebembr what ... what? ... uh ...
C Dan
Yep...got a good chuckle out of that one! (About 20 minutes worth!)
You have the Scriptures, and a Rabbi, and books, and the internet and Youtube, and Bloggers, and Ahavat Elohim and the Ruach.
I've only the Scriptures, and books, and the internet and Youtube, and Bloggers, and Ahavat Elohim and the Ruach.
It is however true that I have no spouse to worry me. 
I imagine that YHVH already knows about all of this, and why we do what we do, and just how much...or He wouldn't be G-d. So, having provided us righteousness and Grace as well, I doubt that it will matter much.
Every Non-Jewish Messianic Believer is a ger tzedek in G-d's eyes.
The Jewish Believers are Jew tzedek, that's all, and consequently better trained! We will, however, catch up with them in the Kingdom of G-d.
|
|
- there are 70 faces to 
Dan
