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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 18:19:26 GMT -8
6. It is a negative commandment to do no work on the Sabbath.
Shemot 20:10(OJB) But the Yom HaShevi’i is the Shabbos of Hashem Eloheicha; in it thou shalt not do any melachah, thou, nor thy ben, nor thy bat, thy eved, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy ger that is within thy gates;
Exodus 20:10 (CJB) but the seventh day is a Shabbat for ADONAI your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work -not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the for eigner staying with you inside the gates to your property.
The sages .. listed thirty-nine major, primary kinds of forbidden labor ... in Talmud tractate Shabbath (73a). For any of the primary kinds of labors, and so for any of their derivative kinds, the punishment deserved is death by stoning. If it was done deliberately but there was no [prior] warning, the penalty is kar'eth [Devine severance of existence]; And if it was done unwittingly a hattath (sin offering) would be required. ... The punishment for willifully doing those kinds of laborwhich are sh'vuth, forbidden by the laws of the Sages, who made this decree about them as a "fence," a protective measure, is whiplashes of disobedience.
About these labors we are adjured also in regard to our domestic animals. To tell some nona non-Jew to do some labor is forbidden ... and this is called sh'vuth. The Sabbath may be thrust aside [and labor done] where there is danger to human life. The Sabbath is equal in importance to all the to all the mitzvoth, since it is a sign between the blessed Lord and the Jewish people. If someone violates the Sabbath willfully, flagrantly, he is like a heathen in every respect.
"Happy is the man that does this ... that keeps the Sabbath from desecrating it (Yesha'yahu 56:2)
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 18:27:36 GMT -8
6. It is a negative commandment to do no work on the Sabbath. This one has always generated some discussion. Here we have as a framework the wisdom of the Sages as a framework. Shemot 20:10(OJB) But the Yom HaShevi’i is the Shabbos of Hashem Eloheicha; in it thou shalt not do any melachah, thou, nor thy ben, nor thy bat, thy eved, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy ger that is within thy gates;
Exodus 20:10 (CJB) but the seventh day is a Shabbat for ADONAI your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work -not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the for eigner staying with you inside the gates to your property. |
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 18:39:22 GMT -8
The penalties- are they applicable today?
If not, what could we learn from what the Sages thought should be done to violators?
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 18:39:41 GMT -8
ad•jure (əˈdʒʊər) v.t. -jured, -jur•ing.
1. to charge, bind, or command earnestly and solemnly, often under oath or the threat of a penalty.
2. to entreat or request earnestly or solemnly.
[1350–1400; Middle English < Latin adjūrāre. See ad-, jury1]
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 So, how about those domestic animals? We can make sure they have food and water on the day of preparation, and some can be left out. But many will require some care dureing the day. Dogs need to be let out, and cows still give milk (and hurt if you don't relieve them) ... (ok, both cows and dogs  ). It is also a sin to cause animals to suffer unnecessarily, if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 18:45:15 GMT -8
My wife has told me stories of this happening, I believe amongst the more liberal synagogues, where they'd pay a passerby to come in and turn on the lights. Seems to me if it is prohibited it is prohibited. And I'm not perfect- I just had to apologize to a Rabbi for breaking Shabbath. We are still all learning; so let's figure out what we can here.
According to Rabbi S, this is the highest mitzvoth- that of saving human life.
Edit: remove 'nona' as typo.
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 18:50:48 GMT -8
This deserves its' own thread, actually. According to Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein (Jewish) this idea is more than all others what has kept the Jews together through 2000 yrs. of dispersion and persecution. I know, it is easy to dismiss Jewish Rabbis and the Sages (also Jews ... will we never get past this?) but face it- you just cann NOT argue with 3500 yrs of this kind of success!
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Post by Questor on Jul 22, 2014 20:11:40 GMT -8
This deserves its' own thread, actually. According to Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein (Jewish) this idea is more than all others what has kept the Jews together through 2000 yrs. of dispersion and persecution. I know, it is easy to dismiss Jewish Rabbis and the Sages (also Jews ... will we never get past this?) but face it- you just cann NOT argue with 3500 yrs of this kind of success! 
Of course, since that statement is not G-d stating how great Shabbat is, so much so that everything else is optional, I'm not sure anyone should take Eckstein's musings seriously, since that guy that only kept Shabbat, but broke every other commandment would probably still end up on the destruction list. Yehoshua never meant Grace to extend so far as grieving the Ruach over every other thing that G-d commanded.
Eckstein should be careful of what he says...someone might take him seriously!  |
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Post by Questor on Jul 22, 2014 20:14:55 GMT -8
6. It is a negative commandment to do no work on the Sabbath. This one has always generated some discussion. Here we have as a framework the wisdom of the Sages as a framework. Shemot 20:10(OJB) But the Yom HaShevi’i is the Shabbos of Hashem Eloheicha; in it thou shalt not do any melachah, thou, nor thy ben, nor thy bat, thy eved, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy ger that is within thy gates;
Exodus 20:10 (CJB) but the seventh day is a Shabbat for ADONAI your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work -not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the for eigner staying with you inside the gates to your property.  |
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Post by Questor on Jul 22, 2014 20:18:39 GMT -8
6. It is a negative commandment to do no work on the Sabbath.Shemot 20:10(OJB) But the Yom HaShevi’i is the Shabbos of Hashem Eloheicha; in it thou shalt not do any melachah, thou, nor thy ben, nor thy bat, thy eved, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy ger that is within thy gates;
Exodus 20:10 (CJB) but the seventh day is a Shabbat for ADONAI your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work -not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the for eigner staying with you inside the gates to your property. The sages .. listed thirty-nine major, primary kinds of forbidden labor ... in Talmud tractate Shabbath (73a). For any of the primary kinds of labors, and so for any of their derivative kinds, the punishment deserved is death by stoning. If it was done deliberately but there was no [prior] warning, the penalty is kar'eth [Devine severance of existence]; And if it was done unwittingly a hattath (sin offering) would be required. ... The punishment for willifully doing those kinds of laborwhich are sh'vuth, forbidden by the laws of the Sages, who made this decree about them as a "fence," a protective measure, is whiplashes of disobedience. About these labors we are adjured also in regard to our domestic animals. To tell some nona non-Jew to do some labor is forbidden ... and this is called sh'vuth. The Sabbath may be thrust aside [and labor done] where there is danger to human life. The Sabbath is equal in importance to all the to all the mitzvoth, since it is a sign between the blessed Lord and the Jewish people. If someone violates the Sabbath willfully, flagrantly, he is like a heathen in every respect. "Happy is the man that does this ... that keeps the Sabbath from desecrating it (Yesha'yahu 56:2)  |
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Post by Questor on Jul 22, 2014 20:19:35 GMT -8
6. It is a negative commandment to do no work on the Sabbath.Shemot 20:10(OJB) But the Yom HaShevi’i is the Shabbos of Hashem Eloheicha; in it thou shalt not do any melachah, thou, nor thy ben, nor thy bat, thy eved, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy ger that is within thy gates;
Exodus 20:10 (CJB) but the seventh day is a Shabbat for ADONAI your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work -not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the for eigner staying with you inside the gates to your property. The sages .. listed thirty-nine major, primary kinds of forbidden labor ... in Talmud tractate Shabbath (73a). For any of the primary kinds of labors, and so for any of their derivative kinds, the punishment deserved is death by stoning. If it was done deliberately but there was no [prior] warning, the penalty is kar'eth [Devine severance of existence]; And if it was done unwittingly a hattath (sin offering) would be required. ... The punishment for willifully doing those kinds of laborwhich are sh'vuth, forbidden by the laws of the Sages, who made this decree about them as a "fence," a protective measure, is whiplashes of disobedience. About these labors we are adjured also in regard to our domestic animals. To tell some nona non-Jew to do some labor is forbidden ... and this is called sh'vuth. The Sabbath may be thrust aside [and labor done] where there is danger to human life. The Sabbath is equal in importance to all the to all the mitzvoth, since it is a sign between the blessed Lord and the Jewish people. If someone violates the Sabbath willfully, flagrantly, he is like a heathen in every respect. "Happy is the man that does this ... that keeps the Sabbath from desecrating it (Yesha'yahu 56:2)
Alon, you really have to be more careful in what you say, and how you say it! I mean...REALLY!!!  |
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 21:26:58 GMT -8
This deserves its' own thread, actually. According to Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein (Jewish) this idea is more than all others what has kept the Jews together through 2000 yrs. of dispersion and persecution. I know, it is easy to dismiss Jewish Rabbis and the Sages (also Jews ... will we never get past this?) but face it- you just cann NOT argue with 3500 yrs of this kind of success!
Of course, since that statement is not G-d stating how great Shabbat is, so much so that everything else is optional, I'm not sure anyone should take Eckstein's musings seriously, since that guy that only kept Shabbat, but broke every other commandment would probably still end up on the destruction list. Yehoshua never meant Grace to extend so far as grieving the Ruach over every other thing that G-d commanded.
Eckstein should be careful of what he says...someone might take him seriously! Well, I'd say we need to be more careful in dismissing the Rabbis comments out of hand, and maybe think about what he is saying! I've read a lot of his "musings" and can tell you he is hard as any Baptist (and I grew up with the hardest) on sin! If it would be foolish to say it the way we as gentiles first see it, try to see it through Hebrew eyes. The Shabbath is what many tell me held the Jews together, as a people and a religion, through the worst humiliation and torture we could put on them. (See, obviously you and me didn't, and don't; but "we" as gentiles over 2000 yrs. have; and no, I'm not calling you an old man again ...  ). The Rabbi is only quoting others before him who wanted to underscore the importance of Shabbath! Just because we are reluctant to take on complete Judaic  Observance, let's not demean those who do. They may not be directly quoting God, but they studied Him more intensely than ANY Christian ever did, and for over 1500 yrs longer. And, BTW, God was a Jew, if I read my gospels right! That same Jew, called the Word is the one who gave us Shabbath as the FIRST of the moedim, and the only one for a few millinea as well! So I'd say it is important. As jimmie pointed out on another recent thread, James 2:10 For a person who keeps the whole , yet stumbles at one point, has become guilty of breaking them all. And I can tell you that, surprisingly enough, Rabbi Eckstein knows his New Testament as well as any Baptist (or other mainC) preacher I've seen lately. He is the founder of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews and gives seminars to us heathens on things we should know but don't usually. That aside, my opinion is we need to be less dismissive of all the Sages and yes, even Rabbis just because they don't accept Yeshua. Martin Luther did this, and the result was the Holocaust! Dan (just sayin') C |
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 21:30:43 GMT -8
This one has always generated some discussion. Here we have as a framework the wisdom of the Sages as a framework. Shemot 20:10(OJB) But the Yom HaShevi’i is the Shabbos of Hashem Eloheicha; in it thou shalt not do any melachah, thou, nor thy ben, nor thy bat, thy eved, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy ger that is within thy gates;
Exodus 20:10 (CJB) but the seventh day is a Shabbat for ADONAI your God. On it, you are not to do any kind of work -not you, your son or your daughter, not your male or female slave, not your livestock, and not the for eigner staying with you inside the gates to your property. Good catch! I have read through these before, and I think the subject comes up. Curious it didn't make the Talmudic list though ... Dan (  ) C |
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 21:34:48 GMT -8
Really Alon! non-Jews are not Domestic Animals!
Alon, you really have to be more careful in what you say, and how you say it! I mean...REALLY!!! Doggone you Questor! Now, I only write it as it is written, and if I leave out bits I "..." the text, so besides that "nona" part which I own but don't remember, that's what it said! Maybe they think we are, or at least should be ... not what I had in mind with the Hebraic thought thing, but ... Dan ( ) C |
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- there are 70 faces to 
). It is also a sin to cause animals to suffer unnecessarily, if I'm not mistaken.
). The Rabbi is only quoting others before him who wanted to underscore the importance of Shabbath! 
