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Post by alon on Jul 8, 2014 0:31:15 GMT -8
Most of the crazier cults who masquerade as Messianic are really some form of Ebionism. They have a huge draw for true Messianics, and according to Rabbi S. once sucked in almost none return. So they are a great danger to us. Since anyone looking for Messianism on the web is sure to come across these cults, they also make it hard for us to talk to others about our beliefs.
Ebionites, from Hebrew אביונים ebionim, meaning "the poor" or "poor ones", was originally a sect who split off early in the 1st cen CE from the Natsarim.
[1] most regarded "Yehoshua" as the Messiah, though some did not (and it is important to them you say the name correctly or you are not saved)
[2] all reject the divinity of Yeshua and the virgin birth
[3] follow selected Jewish laws and rites
[4] they used only one of the Gospels- Matthew, in Aramaic
[5] revered James the Just
[6] rejected Paul of Tarsus as an apostate, and a meanie
[7] sought to separate themselves from the corruption of the Temple, and later all who in any way took "Jesus" name
[8] later as a recruiting tool promoted the doctrine that in the end, everyone and everything created will be reconciled to Elohim
[9] wrapped this all in a doctrine of "love"
They claim to be the true descendants of the original Natsarim, but this is not true since they actually split off and went a totally different direction(s). They coexisted with the Natsarim sect for over 400 years.
These people cut out huge sections of scripture, and misinterpret much more so the Word will fit their world view. But to quote Rabbi S., "Whenever you mix your own feelings with the Word, you are playing with "strange fire!""
Num 26:61 "And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the LORD."
Today there are many different types of apostacies bearing one or more of these hallmarks. But the one most common is to attack the diety of Yeshua. Another common one is to make the Word all warm and fuzzy, where few if any are punished and everything is just "L-U-u-u-uv!"
There are several derivatives of this cult right here in my small town: Sacred Namers, Two House, and a couple I'm not sure what they are, but both deny the diety of Yeshua. Mormons and Unitarians are also derivitives of the Ebionite movement. It is a probability you will meet some of these people. We've had them on the forum in just the short time I've been here. So be wary of anyone who claims to be Messianic but who does not outright tell you Yeshua is God; or that wants to add to, take away from or rewrite scripture.
Not talking about those who say it was misinterpreted, mistranslated, mistransliterated, or in some cases redacted already. But make sure these people can back their claims up with scripture or scholastic arguments. I believe some of these have happened, but I won't even line out or change any translation. I just make notes in the margins. I will not fellowship with those who do or claim any of this.
Just something I was studying on ... thought it was a good time to post it.
Dan C
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 7:02:43 GMT -8
Yes, I have come across a few Messianic groups such as the Ebionites and Nazarites. And there are many more cultic MJ groups, not all but some. One has to be really careful what they read on the internet, or accept in general, either in person, through reading a book to joining a group. Also one needs to be so grounded in the Word of God, so that when they come across these groups they know that it is false teaching.
Moriah Ruth
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 8, 2014 16:46:03 GMT -8
Well stated Alon.
Shalom b'Yeshua,
R' Reuel
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Post by Questor on Aug 3, 2014 22:57:30 GMT -8
Most of the crazier cults who masquerade as Messianic are really some form of Ebionism. They have a huge draw for true Messianics, and according to Rabbi S. once sucked in almost none return. So they are a great danger to us. Since anyone looking for Messianism on the web is sure to come across these cults, they also make it hard for us to talk to others about our beliefs.
Ebionites, from Hebrew אביונים ebionim, meaning "the poor" or "poor ones", was originally a sect who split off early in the 1st cen CE from the Natsarim.
[1] most regarded "Yehoshua" as the Messiah, though some did not (and it is important to them you say the name correctly or you are not saved)
[2] all reject the divinity of Yeshua and the virgin birth
[3] follow selected Jewish laws and rites
[4] they used only one of the Gospels- Matthew, in Aramaic
[5] revered James the Just
[6] rejected Paul of Tarsus as an apostate, and a meanie
[7] sought to separate themselves from the corruption of the Temple, and later all who in any way took "Jesus" name
[8] later as a recruiting tool promoted the doctrine that in the end, everyone and everything created will be reconciled to Elohim
[9] wrapped this all in a doctrine of "love"
They claim to be the true descendants of the original Natsarim, but this is not true since they actually split off and went a totally different direction(s). They coexisted with the Natsarim sect for over 400 years.
These people cut out huge sections of scripture, and misinterpret much more so the Word will fit their world view. But to quote Rabbi S., "Whenever you mix your own feelings with the Word, you are playing with "strange fire!""
Num 26:61 "And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the LORD." |
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Post by alon on Aug 4, 2014 1:53:37 GMT -8
Most of the crazier cults who masquerade as Messianic are really some form of Ebionism. They have a huge draw for true Messianics, and according to Rabbi S. once sucked in almost none return. So they are a great danger to us. Since anyone looking for Messianism on the web is sure to come across these cults, they also make it hard for us to talk to others about our beliefs.
Ebionites, from Hebrew אביונים ebionim, meaning "the poor" or "poor ones", was originally a sect who split off early in the 1st cen CE from the Natsarim.
[1] most regarded "Yehoshua" as the Messiah, though some did not (and it is important to them you say the name correctly or you are not saved)
[2] all reject the divinity of Yeshua and the virgin birth
[3] follow selected Jewish laws and rites
[4] they used only one of the Gospels- Matthew, in Aramaic
[5] revered James the Just
[6] rejected Paul of Tarsus as an apostate, and a meanie
[7] sought to separate themselves from the corruption of the Temple, and later all who in any way took "Jesus" name
[8] later as a recruiting tool promoted the doctrine that in the end, everyone and everything created will be reconciled to Elohim
[9] wrapped this all in a doctrine of "love"
They claim to be the true descendants of the original Natsarim, but this is not true since they actually split off and went a totally different direction(s). They coexisted with the Natsarim sect for over 400 years.
These people cut out huge sections of scripture, and misinterpret much more so the Word will fit their world view. But to quote Rabbi S., "Whenever you mix your own feelings with the Word, you are playing with "strange fire!""
Num 26:61 "And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the LORD."  and standard of judgment will apply to both you and the foreigner living with you.'"
You mean like GOD?
Dan C |
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Post by Questor on Aug 4, 2014 19:56:34 GMT -8
What about the One Law people?
You mean like GOD?
Dan C
It seems that the One Law people would argue that since we are not of the Mosaic Covenant, keepings feasts such as Passover is forbidden to Gentiles, no matter how Messianic, and being Observant in any way is a sin. It also seems that they would be pleased if any Messianic Gentiles would go find a nice Christian Church, and leave Messianic Jews alone. Also, if any Gentile is rude enough to seek out their synagogue, they had better keep in the back, shut up, and remember they are there on sufferance.
The Two House people at least welcome Gentiles to their congregations, and to Observance with the stipulation that the Messianic Jews are the only true physical offspring of Israel, and that Messianic Gentiles are adopted into Israel only spiritually, rejecting any of the foolishness of the 'gentile as lost tribal member nonsense. |
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Post by alon on Aug 4, 2014 21:13:34 GMT -8
Num 15:16 (CJB) The same and standard of judgment will apply to both you and the foreigner living with you.'"
You mean like GOD?
Dan C
It seems that the One Law people would argue that since we are not of the Mosaic Covenant, keepings feasts such as Passover is forbidden to Gentiles, no matter how Messianic, and being Observant in any way is a sin. It also seems that they would be pleased if any Messianic Gentiles would go find a nice Christian Church, and leave Messianic Jews alone. Also, if any Gentile is rude enough to seek out their synagogue, they had better keep in the back, shut up, and remember they are there on sufferance.
The Two House people at least welcome Gentiles to their congregations, and to Observance with the stipulation that the Messianic Jews are the only true physical offspring of Israel, and that Messianic Gentiles are adopted into Israel only spiritually, rejecting any of the foolishness of the 'gentile as lost tribal member nonsense.
Many Jews, Messianic, and secular to Orthodox, are extremely jealous of their customs and traditions that make them uniquely the Jewish people. However, the way I see it, I was COMMANDED to make them jealouse, so  ! Usually what you get from them is this foolishness that we should only keep the Noahide laws- which are found in the Talmud, not the Bible- like any Gentile not crazy enough to become TO in the first place is ever going to read the Talmud!!! But again, I read those commandments in and never once see ANY qualifiers- like "You are the Jews, so do these things." It says everyone, all of us, and you too you filthy Gentile! Sorry, but God trumps their feelings- again!
No, to me, and I think to you too, the verse I just quoted was pretty plain- DO IT! ALL OF YOU!
One Law.
Dan (I know, but ...  ) C
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Post by Questor on Aug 4, 2014 21:31:58 GMT -8
That is a very good way of putting it! Out in the blogosphere in Messianic designations though it seems to mean something more than just keeping covenant with Abba for the Jews, and for God-Fearer's to walk the straight an narrow as Adonai leads them, walking in obedience as the Ruach haKodesh leads them.
It seems that the One Law people would argue that since we are not of the Mosaic Covenant, keepings feasts such as Passover is forbidden to Gentiles, no matter how Messianic, and being Observant in any way is a sin. It also seems that they would be pleased if any Messianic Gentiles would go find a nice Christian Church, and leave Messianic Jews alone. Also, if any Gentile is rude enough to seek out their synagogue, they had better keep in the back, shut up, and remember they are there on sufferance.
The Two House people at least welcome Gentiles to their congregations, and to Observance with the stipulation that the Messianic Jews are the only true physical offspring of Israel, and that Messianic Gentiles are adopted into Israel only spiritually, rejecting any of the foolishness of the 'gentile as lost tribal member nonsense.
Many Jews, Messianic, and secular to Orthodox, are extremely jealous of their customs and traditions that make them uniquely the Jewish people. However, the way I see it, I was COMMANDED to make them jealouse, so ! Usually what you get from them is this foolishness that we should only keep the Noahide laws- which are found in the Talmud, not the Bible- like any Gentile not crazy enough to become TO in the first place is ever going to read the Talmud!!! But again, I read those commandments in and never once see ANY qualifiers- like "You are the Jews, so do these things." It says everyone, all of us, and you too you filthy Gentile! Sorry, but God trumps their feelings- again!
No, to me, and I think to you too, the verse I just quoted was pretty plain- DO IT! ALL OF YOU!
One Law.
Dan (I know, but ... ) C
Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
Disciple means to imitate your Rabbi in everything...and Yehoshua, being a perfectly righteous follower of Pharisaic rules and customs wrapped around the , even if He disapproved of what the Scribes and Pharisees and Saducees in power had made of the .
I am part of one of the Nations...ethnos...goyim, and I am to be discipled by the Apostles, through their writings, how to walk like Yehoshua walked. So are you. And golly gee, that means Obedience!
I may feel no need to copy the exact way way Yehoshua did every commandment and instruction, since the Apostles didn't think it necessary to write that sort of thing down, but they gave great descriptions of what we can do to be like Yehoshua, and add on to that fact the knowledge that He was a Very observant Guy, I wonder at the nerve some of the messianic groups out there are claiming their version of Messianic Judaism is the one and only way to be Messianic! |
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Post by Micha'el on Aug 5, 2014 15:52:51 GMT -8
Shalom! So, an easy way to respond is to say: "What is obedience? Who should obey the ? Answer: I consider the to be all 66 books (Gen-Rev) so, keep the commands in the . Who? All who belong to G_d. If you don't belong to Him, then you're excused. Micha"el |
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Post by Questor on Aug 5, 2014 23:34:51 GMT -8
Shalom! So, an easy way to respond is to say: "What is obedience? Who should obey the ? Answer: I consider the to be all 66 books (Gen-Rev) so, keep the commands in the . Who? All who belong to G_d. If you don't belong to Him, then you're excused. Micha"el
I like that, Michael. All we need is a T-Shirt that says that!
(on the front)
ALL 66 Books in the Bible! (on the Back) |
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 7, 2014 18:43:32 GMT -8
Israel is a light to the world. Yeah, we've all heard it before. However, considering this world, perhaps Gentiles who want to be associated with Israel and do what the God of Israel says out of simple love should be considered a source of credibility. As for sitting in the back row, perhaps another T-shirt that says something along the lines of "first shall be last, last shall be first". . . . then after service make a beeline for the refreshment table.  |
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Post by Questor on Aug 8, 2014 1:51:35 GMT -8
Israel is a light to the world. Yeah, we've all heard it before. However, considering this world, perhaps Gentiles who want to be associated with Israel and do what the God of Israel says out of simple love should be considered a source of credibility. As for sitting in the back row, perhaps another T-shirt that says something along the lines of "first shall be last, last shall be first". . . . then after service make a beeline for the refreshment table. |
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- there are 70 faces to 
) C
