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Post by Questor on Jul 6, 2014 22:17:30 GMT -8
Matthew 25:31-40 says a great deal, and I would like some help on understanding all of it...but for BREVITIES sake, I will go line by line of the verse in question.! 
Matthew 25:31-40 (CJB)
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, accompanied by all the angels, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats.
33 The ‘sheep’ he will place at his right hand and the ‘goats’ at his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take your inheritance, the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you made me your guest,
36 I needed clothes and you provided them, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’
37 Then the people who have done what God wants will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and make you our guest, or needing clothes and provide them?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’
40 The King will say to them, ‘Yes! I tell you that whenever you did these things for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did them for me!’
My first question has to do with providing food and clothes to those in need. There is so much need everywhere...I am having much difficulty in deciding whom to give to, as my resources are not unlimited. I tithe, of course, and give alms to people I do not know, and provide work to people where I can.
I am not wealthy, except in comparison to all of those living hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck. I would like to know I am giving as Yehoshua would prefer I give.
But Matthew 25:40 mentions specifically the brethren of the King...Yehoshua...as being preferred...indeed, giving to Yehoshua's breather is as giving unto Him.
Are Yehoshua's brethren Jews, Messianic Jews and Gentiles, or the mixed up mainC that do obey Yehoshua, and thus bear fruit? Do the orphans and fatherless and widows that are Believers in Yehoshua with no provision to take precedence over others that are Believers in Yehoshua that can work but cannot find work, or cannot find enough work? And what of those that do not believe in Yehoshua, nor trust in YHVH?
I know that perfect action would be to give all that I have, and become a penniless mendicant myself...except we do not live in a world with a habit of hospitality any longer, and where the community has shifted responsibility to the government...as if they can figure out to do anything right!
And no where in Scripture is it really taught to give away all that you have, and become a burden to others except when Yehoshua was talking to the Rich young ruler who wanted to be perfect, but was really attached to his possessions because he had great wealth.
So, under a situation with a small purse and much need, what are the priorities of giving?
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Post by alon on Jul 7, 2014 13:10:14 GMT -8
...but for BREVITIES sake,  Rabbi S interpreted this passage for us not too long ago, so I might remember it all (or at least most ... ok, some) of it (if I think really hard). 
First, tithing is not charity. It is giving to Elohim. And it means more than money- we should give of our time and resources in addition to our monetary tithe.
Charity does not mean giving to the lazy. And there is an order to our giving. Family and congregation first. Then to other Messianic believers, then to Jews. (Rabbi S. isn't big on giving to Christians per say, but I'll insert Christian friends in need here). Then to others in need as your means allow- widows and orphans being the primary recipients. Never waste your/God's money on those who simply refuse to work.
I don't think the Jewish mind sees absolutes here either- if you see a starving widow or orphan, give to them as a witness. But if they do not yield in time then don't keep giving to them. It's all a judgment call.
Hope this helps.
Dan C
P.S. I too give by hiring out work I can't do or need help with. This is a good way to make sure they are not just lazy. It also helps me as I pay the going rate for unskilled construction labor. Most people I've helped would have worked for less, but this way I make sure I don't cheat them (I used to be a cheap so-n'-so). Never hedge their time either (used to be a ... ). At the end of Shulam's book, he talks about learning being necessarily a give and take proposition. In this way I mentor younger men on how to give, and we both benefit (also essential to learning in a Jewish understanding).
The AoG church I attend has a benevolence fund and I sometimes give there but earmark the funds for someone in particular. This provides accountability on their part, as they can't just beg from everyone and rake in the cash (has happened). The fund administrators provide oversight. But note- if they do not go and get the money, I have it rolled over into the larger fund. Once I give I no longer consider it my money.Edit: Just was doing bills, and noticed some things- at giving to needy Christians add Veterans, and with giving to Jews add Jewish evangelism. Well, for me anyhow. Not sure about the rabbi. And I try to hit as many categories as possible without detracting from the effect of primary giving, but I apportion the ammounts based on their priority ranking. Make any sense???  Dan  C |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 10:19:47 GMT -8
I thought this was with anyone that was in need of food and clothing. Rather they believed in Yeshua or not. Yes, I do agree that we are to provide for the congregations needs and family needs first before anyone else. Than with whatever one has left over they are to give to the poor of their community or congregation. And if one does this for the glory of God with an open heart to Him and that they desire to please Him than God will bless them in return.
I guess the question would be, what about those who are overseas that are hungering for food and need of clothing and clean water? Are they in much more need than those who are from wealthy countries?
As for the sheep and the goats I believe that God was making a distinction between the two. Where the sheep desired to give out of their hearts to please God. Where the goats would be those who are selfish and have no heart towards those in need. So the sheep will spend eternity with God where the goats will spend eternity in hell or damnation.
Moriah Ruth
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Post by alon on Jul 8, 2014 15:49:46 GMT -8
I thought this was with anyone that was in need of food and clothing.
Why waste money on the indolent when there are good, honest people just down on their luck who need it too?
And we give to the needy (after taking care of our own) as a witness. If they refuse to hear the truth, why keep throwing money at them?
We are not just responsible TO give, we are responsible for HOW we give.
Luk 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Dan C |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 16:03:46 GMT -8
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[h] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
So would this not imply also to those who are poor even though they may be evil and our enemies?
Moriah Ruth
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Post by alon on Jul 8, 2014 17:20:18 GMT -8
Love Your Enemies 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor[g] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[h] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
So would this not imply also to those who are poor even though they may be evil and our enemies?
Moriah Ruth 
However greeting and giving are not the same thing. And loving your enemies is different than giving indiscriminately to them. It could range from not taking revenge or indulging in lashon hara, to actually witnessing to them. Again, anything you do give them should be for the purposes of witnessing, and should have limits if they refuse to hear. Otherwise you are wasting your and God's money and resources.
Dan C
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 18:16:57 GMT -8
Alon, Can I kick you? Do I have to like you?  Going in my corner to think. Moriah Ruth |
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Post by alon on Jul 9, 2014 22:23:49 GMT -8
I talked to Rabbi S. tonight, and yes we are responsible for every penny we give; responsible to give wisely and responsible if we give to anyone or anything who/which will waste or use it for evil.
Tithes is 10% of your gross, and should go to a Messianic body or organization or synagogue where you are fed. Don't have one? I'd suggest Synagogue Chavarut HaMoshiach- the place that hosts this forum. They seem solid to me. You can catch their live feed service on Shabbat at 10:00 AM Pacific time. Check them out. I'm sure they'll put it to good use (and no, I'm not any more affiliated with them than anyone else here).
I was giving to a Jewish organization which reaches out to Jews and educated Christians. But they are mainC, so I'm going to quit. As the Rabbi pointed out, they teach against  Observance and that is apostasy. So no more.
I also give (gave) to the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Seeing that word "Christian" may be the only time many Jews ever see that someone else cares, but it is not the maximum bang for my buck. So I'll be giving through my own Synagogue now.
Rabbi S. also pointed out that Rav Sha'ul collected money to give to other Messianics/Natsarim. He didn't throw money around to every beggar or needy group. He'd witness to anyone- I doubt he ever missed an opportunity! But there is no account of his giving money outside his faith, the Natsarim community.
Just some more kindling for your fire- like you needed that, huh!? 
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on Jul 10, 2014 5:05:32 GMT -8
Matt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 5:15:48 GMT -8
Alon,
I'm still thinking. Not ready to come out of my corner yet.
Moriah Ruth
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Post by alon on Jul 10, 2014 7:30:33 GMT -8
Matt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
The key passages there are vss. 46 & 47. This is talking about how you treat them, not how much you give them.Acts 3:6 "Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Peter didn't give money, he greeted this lowest of men like a brother and helped him! You might feel better droping spare change in a beggars hat, but are you willing to sit and talk with him? Eat a hamburger with him? Two people I think of with regret are one just so down you could see it, but I was in a hurry to get home. I knew I should talk with this person, but I had a good days drive and ... excuses, excuses. Another was a homeless woman in the cold, but I knew my wife would have a fit if I stoped- but you know what, she was with me and I didn't ask! More excuses. I'll stand before God one day and have no excuse for my treatment of these two people!
Throwing money at them eases our consciences, but truly helping is a matter of the heart.
For what it's worth,
Dan C |
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Post by alon on Jul 10, 2014 7:33:29 GMT -8
Alon, I'm still thinking. Not ready to come out of my corner yet. Moriah Ruth You can't hide forever!  Dan  C |
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Post by jimmie on Jul 10, 2014 10:02:28 GMT -8
Giving to them is how you treat them. If you only give money to your brethren and not strangers, then you fall short of vs 46 & 47. You are acting no different than a publican. Truth be told I never give money to anyone. I have bought gas, groceries, dipers, etc. for total strangers as well as brethren. They are all made in the image of God.
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Post by alon on Jul 10, 2014 10:33:49 GMT -8
Giving to them is how you treat them. If you only give money to your brethren and not strangers, then you fall short of vs 46 & 47. You are acting no different than a publican. Truth be told I never give money to anyone. I have bought gas, groceries, dipers, etc. for total strangers as well as brethren. They are all made in the image of God.
I actually agree about buying meals etc. for people. It's why I listed eating a hamburger with them. And while you eat, you can witness ... Sha'ul did a whole lot of that! Even gas and groceries can get you an introduction and opportunity, and you know the money isn't going to drugs etc.
And Muslims are made in the image of God, but I wouldn't give to them. Many of them are well versed and trained in the arts of scamming gullible westerners.
Hitler was made in the image of God too, but he abused that free will thing a bit- would you give to someone with swastika tattoos and jackboots? And if the giving is not to a Messianic community, how do you know what you are supporting (unless you know them, in which case see my original answer)?
I can't tell you how to give, But for me, I am reorganizing my giving to support mostly Messianics in need. After that it's as I said earlier.
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on Jul 10, 2014 13:20:05 GMT -8
I not sure how sending money to someone in drought conditions will relieve them. They can't eat the money and there is no food to buy with the money. Also it doesn't require much to "Lay by and store money", but to lay by and store food takes some effort thus they had to wait until the first of the week to do so.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
All of the muslims that I know have more than I, as did Hitler.
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- there are 70 faces to 
C
