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Post by jimmie on May 22, 2014 7:53:39 GMT -8
This past Sabbath, I attended the graduation of my grand nephew. Friday my son and I replaced the tie rods on the van to make it safe to drive to the graduation. We ended up working on it late and I wasn’t able to fill it up with gas before the Sabbath began. In short we ran out of gas on the way. As I was costing off an exit, I could see that the traffic ahead was stopped due to a wreck. I walked to the gas station to buy some gas. While I was gone, my wife called my niece for assistance. Her twin sister’s husband was dispatched to our rescue. He arrived just in time to give me a ride back down the exit to the van. In the mean time another nephew had got off at the exit to avoid the traffic jam and stopped to help. We all got back on the interstate just as the traffic from the wreck was clearing. No lost time, due to running out of gas.
Had I not ran out of gas I would have missed the graduation. I was headed to the school that my grand nephew attended. But the graduation was being held at a college 20 miles closer than the school. The Nephew who stopped to help gave us the correct destination.
After the graduation, I struck up a conversation about God’s law with my niece’s husband. I just sent him the following. Please pray that as we correspond, God will quicken his soul to the truth of God’s unchanging word.
I had a great time of fellowship at Blake’s graduation. I have laid out some of my thoughts below. I hope the highlight show up on your end.
Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
It is clear from this scripture that Paul and all believing Jews kept the Law including the offerings after Christ died. So what about the believing Gentiles? Were they only to up hold the four items listed in verse 25?
Eph 6:6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
Here the believing Gentiles at Ephesus are admonished to keep a commandment that is outside of the four “commandments” of Acts 21:25. Those four items deal with pagan temple rites. Thus a Gentile had to make a break with his pagan past in order to fellowship with believers. During this fellowship he would learn more about Christ who is God and his commandments/laws. In other words the babes in Christ should grow in obedience to Christ. Look what was said when those four items were first given:
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
21 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."
So after the Gentile breaks off fellowship with the pagan temples he is going to have Moses’ writings preached to him.
On a side note, I also mentioned that Thanksgiving was a type of sacrifice. In support, look at the first time the word “sacrifice” is used in the bible:
Gen 31:54 Then Jacob offered sacrifice upon the mount, and called his brethren to eat bread: and they did eat bread, and tarried all night in the mount.
Finally I would like to make a point about Paul’s writing. Peter tells us that if we don’t understand Paul’s letters correctly it will lead to our destruction.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
As we go forward, I suggest that we just start with an overview of how the law is viewed in the Old Testament. Was it viewed as a blessing or cursing? Then starting in Matthew look at every mention of law, commandment, ordinances and etc. to firm up our understanding. Then, when we get to the writings of Paul, we will be better equipped to understand what is passed away, nailed to the cross, changed by the death of the testator, dead, and the new or better covenant/testament.
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Post by Questor on May 23, 2014 1:55:50 GMT -8
This past Sabbath, I attended the graduation of my grand nephew. Friday my son and I replaced the tie rods on the van to make it safe to drive to the graduation. We ended up working on it late and I wasn’t able to fill it up with gas before the Sabbath began. In short we ran out of gas on the way. As I was costing off an exit, I could see that the traffic ahead was stopped due to a wreck. I walked to the gas station to buy some gas. While I was gone, my wife called my niece for assistance. Her twin sister’s husband was dispatched to our rescue. He arrived just in time to give me a ride back down the exit to the van. In the mean time another nephew had got off at the exit to avoid the traffic jam and stopped to help. We all got back on the interstate just as the traffic from the wreck was clearing. No lost time, due to running out of gas. Had I not ran out of gas I would have missed the graduation. I was headed to the school that my grand nephew attended. But the graduation was being held at a college 20 miles closer than the school. The Nephew who stopped to help gave us the correct destination. After the graduation, I struck up a conversation about God’s law with my niece’s husband. I just sent him the following. Please pray that as we correspond, God will quicken his soul to the truth of God’s unchanging word. I had a great time of fellowship at Blake’s graduation. I have laid out some of my thoughts below. I hope the highlight show up on your end. Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. It is clear from this scripture that Paul and all believing Jews kept the Law including the offerings after Christ died. So what about the believing Gentiles? Were they only to up hold the four items listed in verse 25? Eph 6:6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; Here the believing Gentiles at Ephesus are admonished to keep a commandment that is outside of the four “commandments” of Acts 21:25. Those four items deal with pagan temple rites. Thus a Gentile had to make a break with his pagan past in order to fellowship with believers. During this fellowship he would learn more about Christ who is God and his commandments/laws. In other words the babes in Christ should grow in obedience to Christ. Look what was said when those four items were first given: Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath." So after the Gentile breaks off fellowship with the pagan temples he is going to have Moses’ writings preached to him. On a side note, I also mentioned that Thanksgiving was a type of sacrifice. In support, look at the first time the word “sacrifice” is used in the bible: Gen 31:54 Then Jacob offered sacrifice upon the mount, and called his brethren to eat bread: and they did eat bread, and tarried all night in the mount. Finally I would like to make a point about Paul’s writing. Peter tells us that if we don’t understand Paul’s letters correctly it will lead to our destruction. 2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. As we go forward, I suggest that we just start with an overview of how the law is viewed in the Old Testament. Was it viewed as a blessing or cursing? Then starting in Matthew look at every mention of law, commandment, ordinances and etc. to firm up our understanding. Then, when we get to the writings of Paul, we will be better equipped to understand what is passed away, nailed to the cross, changed by the death of the testator, dead, and the new or better covenant/testament.
Please write more soon! As a pagan wrestling with a pagan world, and no synagogue, I need all the comfort I can get that I am heading in the right direction! |
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Post by jimmie on May 23, 2014 7:01:01 GMT -8
As you wish.
Is the law a blessing or cursing?
Deut 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
29 And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal.
God sent the law/commandments as a blessing to those who obey and a curse to those who don’t. You may remember that I told you that the names in the Bible mean something. Gerizim, the mount of blessing, means “cut up.” The surface of the mountain is cut up and reminds one of a sacrifice that had been cut up and is ready to be served in fellowship. The mountain represents being in covenant fellowship with God. The people are keeping his commands and God is sending the blessings. Ebal, the mountain of cursing, means “bald or bare.” The surface of the mountain has no trees. In other words there is no place to hide. When one breaks the commands of God there is no place to hide. God will see it and send the curse/death. There-in lies the rub, since God is not willing that any should parish. He will make a way to get out from under the curse. Though few be that find that narrow path.
Deut 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
God is pro-choice. He has given us the ability to choose between life and death, and blessing and cursing. But he tells us which choice to make. This choice has been with us since the beginning. Jesus sent us back to the beginning in regards to marriage. I find that the beginning is always a good place to start no matter the subject.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
We know the choice that Adam (human) and Eva (mother of all living) made. What lead to that choice. Was it the serpent?
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Where did God say not to touch the fruit? How can you dress and keep the tree without touching the fruit on it. God said don’t eat the fruit. Man said don’t touch it. Here is recorded the first tradition of man. Or the first fence built around God’s law by man. As we travel through the Gospels (a contraction for “Gods Spell or Gods Word) we will see Jesus contending with all kinds of fences or traditions of men that make the laws of God of no effect. Once these traditions are put in place by man it is easy for man to be deceived by the serpent. Adam had no right to blame Eve for his breaking of God’s law and Eve had no right to blame the Serpent for her breaking of God’s law.
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Post by jimmie on May 27, 2014 12:49:24 GMT -8
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
One meaning of fulfil it to fully preach. If we be followers of Christ, why don’t we fully preach God’s word.. Instead we destroy or throw down his word. I just looked outside and the earth and sky are still there. So, if heaven and earth are still with us, so too is the law. And it will be fulfilled or be performed. Verse 18 is the scariest verse in the bible to me. Because, the wages of sin (transgressing the law) is death. The only question is who’s death will pay for the sin. Will it be our death or that of Christ Jesus that pays for our sins? If payed by Jesus, then my death is swallowed up.
Were you aware that Christ did not fulfil/completed all of what the prophets say. For example, where is the following fulfilled?
Zech 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
I can find no time where all the nations came up to Jerusalem to worship God and to keep the Feast. This is speaking to a time yet to come. If everyone will be required to keep the feast of tabernacles in the future, why not start now?
Matt 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Since the Golden Rule equates to the law and prophets, each law that we neglect is neglecting the Golden Rule.
The Golden Rule is found in Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Christ Jesus teaches the law.
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Post by Questor on May 28, 2014 23:58:38 GMT -8
As you wish. Is the law a blessing or cursing? Deut 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; 27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: 28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. 29 And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal. God sent the law/commandments as a blessing to those who obey and a curse to those who don’t. You may remember that I told you that the names in the Bible mean something. Gerizim, the mount of blessing, means “cut up.” The surface of the mountain is cut up and reminds one of a sacrifice that had been cut up and is ready to be served in fellowship. The mountain represents being in covenant fellowship with God. The people are keeping his commands and God is sending the blessings. Ebal, the mountain of cursing, means “bald or bare.” The surface of the mountain has no trees. In other words there is no place to hide. When one breaks the commands of God there is no place to hide. God will see it and send the curse/death. There-in lies the rub, since God is not willing that any should parish. He will make a way to get out from under the curse. Though few be that find that narrow path. Deut 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: God is pro-choice. He has given us the ability to choose between life and death, and blessing and cursing. But he tells us which choice to make. This choice has been with us since the beginning. Jesus sent us back to the beginning in regards to marriage. I find that the beginning is always a good place to start no matter the subject. Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. We know the choice that Adam (human) and Eva (mother of all living) made. What lead to that choice. Was it the serpent? Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Where did God say not to touch the fruit? How can you dress and keep the tree without touching the fruit on it. God said don’t eat the fruit. Man said don’t touch it. Here is recorded the first tradition of man. Or the first fence built around God’s law by man. As we travel through the Gospels (a contraction for “Gods Spell or Gods Word) we will see Jesus contending with all kinds of fences or traditions of men that make the laws of God of no effect. Once these traditions are put in place by man it is easy for man to be deceived by the serpent. Adam had no right to blame Eve for his breaking of God’s law and Eve had no right to blame the Serpent for her breaking of God’s law. |
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Post by Questor on May 29, 2014 0:47:19 GMT -8
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. One meaning of fulfil it to fully preach. If we be followers of Christ, why don’t we fully preach God’s word.. Instead we destroy or throw down his word. I just looked outside and the earth and sky are still there. So, if heaven and earth are still with us, so too is the law. And it will be fulfilled or be performed. Verse 18 is the scariest verse in the bible to me. Because, the wages of sin (transgressing the law) is death. The only question is who’s death will pay for the sin. Will it be our death or that of Christ Jesus that pays for our sins? If payed by Jesus, then my death is swallowed up.  is not taught in many MainC Churches.
They lean heavily on Grace, and are wise to do so, since they are badly instructed, and culturally restricted from being Observant...with a punishment of shunning for not adhering to the culteral norm in their churches. Those actually attempting to walk in Yehoshua's footsteps will find that the Ruach will draw them further and furth into .
Until they reach the point of keeping Shabbat, and the Feasts, many Believers in Yehoshua will not even know how many of the Mitzvot for the Believers in the Diaspora they are already Keeping! All of what is described in the Letters in the Brit Chadashah was carefully written to teach pagans like myself how to think and act like a Jew without focusing on first...which would have scared everyone away from the First Gen Messianic Jews. To walk in love under the guidance of the Ruach, who was given to us as Counselor and Teacher, as is taught in the Brit Chadashah is how to treat Abba and their neighbors in a kindly and loving manner as they were sitting under the teaching of a Messianic Rabbi, and gradually learning and applying to their lives as well.
All the teachings of all the Scriptures fit together as tightly as a tapestry of many colored threads that when finished, show a portrait of Yehoshua, and how to be like Him.
For the Believer in Yehoshua, his salvation and justification under the law, commandments, ordinances and teaching of the Scriptures is complete as a matter of judicial certainty, however, that Believer without walking in Yehoshua's footsteps, and trying to be more like Him, will find himself in the Kingdom by mercy alone, and with little reward. It is according to how well each Believers race is run, as to how pleased Yehoshua will be with him at the Bema, where salvation is not a question, and only rewards for service in Love to YHVH are handed out. I want to hear "Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Come and enter into the joy of your Lord." And so I seek to be faithful, following the guidance of the Ruach, who has called me into observance.
Matthew 25:21 (NKJV)
21 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'
Were you aware that Christ did not fulfil/completed all of what the prophets say. For example, where is the following fulfilled? Zech 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. I can find no time where all the nations came up to Jerusalem to worship God and to keep the Feast. This is speaking to a time yet to come. If everyone will be required to keep the feast of tabernacles in the future, why not start now?
But as is taught in the , and as modeled by our Lord, we should keep every feast, every commandment, every ordinance that pertains to us as Believers not living in Israel, and living not in a time where the Temple is standing. We need not follow the traditions and culture of the Jews as given in the Mishna and Talmud, but they are excellent references for how to perform all the Mitzvot we are required to do if we want to pick up the stake, and follow in Yehoshua's footsteps.
Matt 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Since the Golden Rule equates to the law and prophets, each law that we neglect is neglecting the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule is found in Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Christ Jesus teaches the law.
It is not always as clear to gentiles that Yehoshua was doing so, as He spoke to those that had been already living within the and all of the customs and traditions of the day, and did not need to be specific to them, but that is often misunderstood by the MainC Community. |
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Post by alon on Jun 5, 2014 11:26:21 GMT -8
I never really thought of it quite like that, ... ( thinks a bit ... )... Good point!
Dan C
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 4:39:09 GMT -8
Silly thought that crossed my mind. The name of this thread, "Always Something" It reminds me of a secular song.
"Always something there to remind me"
Anyone know what song I am talking about?
Actually it is a love song. The version that I know was in the 80's. by the group Naked Eyes.
Every time I see the title to this thread I am reminded of that song.
Sorry Alon. As I stated it is only a silly thought.
Now back to the subject.
Moriah Ruth
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is not taught in many MainC Churches.
