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Post by alon on May 14, 2014 21:23:38 GMT -8
I found this statement in an academic paper while researching things not even related to the topic (call it Hashem's guidance or more likely my inability to concentrate on one subject); at any rate I found it both interesting and profound:
Seems to me to be a much better explanation of the Diety of Yeshua than the Trinitarian view. And one much more acceptable to Jews as well.
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on May 15, 2014 4:48:16 GMT -8
that is how I see it.
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Miykhael
Junior Member
To proclaim the Good News of Salvation for our Messiah's return draws near!!!!
Posts: 73 
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Post by Miykhael on May 15, 2014 16:34:31 GMT -8
ב’’ה (B"H)
Here are a couple of verses we have been mediating on..
We read in Timotiyos Alef, 1 Timothy 2:-5-6 For HaShem is one; and there is but one Mediator between HaShem and humanity, Yeshua the Messiah, himself human, who gave himself as a ransom on behalf of all, thus providing testimony to HaShem’s purpose at just the right time.
Also in Korintim Alef, 1Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are so-called “gods,” either in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are “gods” and “lords” galore—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things come and for whom we exist; and one Lord, Yeshua the Messiah, through whom were created all things and through whom we have our being.
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Post by alon on May 15, 2014 16:58:01 GMT -8
ב’’ה (B"H) Here are a couple of verses we have been mediating on.. We read in Timotiyos Alef, 1 Timothy 2:-5-6 For HaShem is one; and there is but one Mediator between HaShem and humanity, Yeshua the Messiah, himself human, who gave himself as a ransom on behalf of all, thus providing testimony to HaShem’s purpose at just the right time. Also in Korintim Alef, 1Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are so-called “gods,” either in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are “gods” and “lords” galore—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things come and for whom we exist; and one Lord, Yeshua the Messiah, through whom were created all things and through whom we have our being.  (Note to self- when Sha'ul gives a heavenly d'rash, don't sit in the window ...  Z-z-z-z-zz)
Dan C |
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Post by Questor on May 15, 2014 22:59:52 GMT -8
I found this statement in an academic paper while researching things not even related to the topic (call it Hashem's guidance or more likely my inability to concentrate on one subject); at any rate I found it both interesting and profound: Seems to me to be a much better explanation of the Diety of Yeshua than the Trinitarian view. And one much more acceptable to Jews as well. Dan C |
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Post by alon on Jun 25, 2014 10:07:36 GMT -8
‘The entire world cannot contain My glory, yet when I wish, I can concentrate My entire essence into one small spot. Indeed, I am Most High, yet I sit in a [limited, constricted] refuge – in the shadow of the Tabernacle.’" Where is this written? |
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Post by alon on Jun 25, 2014 21:44:39 GMT -8
It is a Talmudic reference, "in the midrash to Psalm 91", and I was quoing the stated source. So it isn't in the Tanakh. |
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Post by Questor on Jun 26, 2014 22:12:42 GMT -8
‘The entire world cannot contain My glory, yet when I wish, I can concentrate My entire essence into one small spot. Indeed, I am Most High, yet I sit in a [limited, constricted] refuge – in the shadow of the Tabernacle.’" Where is this written? It is a Talmudic reference, "in the midrash to Psalm 91", and I was quoing the stated source.
1 You who live in the shelter of ‘Elyon, who spend your nights in the shadow of Shaddai,
2 who say to Adonai, “My refuge! My fortress! My God, in whom I trust!” —
3 he will rescue you from the trap of the hunter and from the plague of calamities;
4 he will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his truth is a shield and protection.
5 You will not fear the terrors of night or the arrow that flies by day,
6 or the plague that roams in the dark, or the scourge that wreaks havoc at noon.
7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand; but it won’t come near you.
8 Only keep your eyes open, and you will see how the wicked are punished. 9 For you have made Adonai, the Most High, who is my refuge, your dwelling-place.
10 No disaster will happen to you, no calamity will come near your tent;
11 for he will order his angels to care for you and guard you wherever you go.
12 They will carry you in their hands, so that you won’t trip on a stone.
13 You will tread down lions and snakes, young lions and serpents you will trample underfoot.
14 “Because he loves me, I will rescue him; because he knows my name, I will protect him.
15 He will call on me, and I will answer him. I will be with him when he is in trouble. I will extricate him and bring him honor.
16 I will satisfy him with long life and show him my salvation.” |
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Post by Questor on Jul 6, 2014 15:52:38 GMT -8
I found this statement in an academic paper while researching things not even related to the topic (call it Hashem's guidance or more likely my inability to concentrate on one subject); at any rate I found it both interesting and profound: Seems to me to be a much better explanation of the Diety of Yeshua than the Trinitarian view. And one much more acceptable to Jews as well. Dan C
Thanks again for the recommendation...it is worth the money, which is more than can be said for a lot of books these days. The book is excellent. ("Hidden Treasures" by Joseph Shulam)
Oddly, I was reading David Stern's introduction to the his Jewish New Testament Comnentary, and read they were close friends...which somehow, didn't surprise me at that point. Excellant minds think alike! |
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Post by alon on Jul 12, 2014 4:19:13 GMT -8
MOD NOTE: I removed some of bngo's posts that violated protocol here. If you think yours looks goofy replying to a post that isn't there then please delete it. Thakns/todah!
Dan C
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Post by alon on Jul 10, 2016 16:04:44 GMT -8
This is a very old post, started just before I became a moderator. But I wanted to revive it because of a recent teaching by Dr. Chester of  Light Ministries:
We are made in the image of Hashem- body, soul and spirit. So does God have three parts:
Will- the Father; every decision starts with the Father who wills it.
1Pe 3:17 (KJV) For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
Way- the Ruach, who does the work.
Romans 8:26a (ESV) Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
Word- Yeshua is called the Word, and every time someone heard God or heard from God, it was the Word, Yeshua who spoke.
Revelation 19:11-13 (ESV) Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
Every decision starts with the Father, the Word is spoken by the Son, and the Ruach HaChodesh performs it.
Exodus 33:11a (ESV) Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.
How then could Hashem tell Moshe later that to see His face was to die?
Exodus 33:20 (ESV) But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.”
I have heard many explanations for this from Christian pastors, but none rang true. The only answer can be that Moshe spoke with the Word, Yeshua. In what form we are not told. But if it was face to face as it says, then it was not the full glory of Elohim he saw, then or even as Hashem caused His glory to pass before Moshe. And it was not that attenuated glory either, for after he saw that Moshe's face glowed!
Exodus 33:21-23 (ESV) And the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock, and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen.”
Exodus 34:29 (ESV) When Moses came down from Mount Sinai, with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand as he came down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God.
Moshe saw the Glory of Hashem on the mountain, and there he was given , and his face glowed. But not before in the several times when he had talked to God. The Father willed it and Yeshua Spoke it, and it was all done through the power and work of the Ruach. Not three persons, but three aspects of One Being- Ehiyeh sh'Ehiyeh, "I Am That I Am" or "I Will Be That I Will Be." Not the Trinity that man has made Him, but One God:
Devarim 6:4 (OJB) Shema Yisroel Adonoi Eloheinu Adonoi Echad.
Deuteronomy 6:4 (CJB) “Sh’ma, Yisra’el! Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad [Hear, Isra’el! Adonai our God, Adonai is one];
Dan C
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Post by Questor on Sept 18, 2016 11:34:59 GMT -8
Taking a look at how the soul is divided into parts in Jewish thought is very important.
The Soul
by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan
Understanding the source of our soul and its eternal essence.
One of the foundations of our faith is the belief in the immortality of the soul, and in life after death.
If one believes in God's justice, one must also believe in the immortality of the soul. How can we otherwise reconcile the fact that many righteous individuals suffer in this life?
Yeshua, for instance! Ultimate suffering for ultimate redemption of others.
Just as the unborn child has many endowments which are of no use to it in the womb, but demonstrate that it will be born into a world where they will be used, so does a human being have many endowments which are of little value in this life, which indicate that man will be reborn into a higher dimension after death.
Details of immortality are not mentioned in the since revelation only deals with the present world. The prophet therefore says when speaking of the World to Come, "Never has the ear heard it -- no eye has seen it -- other than God: That which He will do for those who hope in Him" (Isaiah 64:3). That is, not even the great prophets were allowed to envision the reward of the righteous in the Ultimate future.
Man shares physio-chemical life processes with animals, and on the physical plane is indistinguishable from them. We therefore speak of man having an "animal soul" (Nefesh HaBehamit) which is contained in the blood, i.e. in the physio-chemical life processes. Regarding this soul, the says, "The life-force of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11).
Since this animal soul is what draws man away from the spiritual, it is commonly called the "Evil Urge" (Yetzer Hara) in the Talmud.
Innermost Essence
In addition to his material self, however, man possesses a soul which is unique among all of God's creations. In describing the creation of Adam, the says, "God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils a soul-breath of life (Nishmat Chaim). Man [thus] became a living creature (Nefesh Chaya)" (Genesis 2:7).
Even as Yeshua's body was taken of the DNA in Miriam's egg, and altered to be as G-d chose, including being masculine, rather than a derivative clone of Miriam...human, masculine, subject to the Yetzer Hara, yet able to overcome that impulse because of the greatness of the soul-breath of life...a special, pre-existant part of G-d.
The is teaching us that the human soul came directly from God's innermost Essence in the same way that a breath issues forth from a person's lungs and chest cavity. The rest of creation, on the other hand, was created with speech, which is a lower level, for just as sound waves are generated by a person but do not contain any air from the lungs, so the rest of creation emanates from God's Power but not from His Essence.
It is thus that G-d himself can extend a portion of himself, that has always existed with him, into a tent of human flesh, and that this is not in the least unusual in Jewish thought...just not always considered of G-d's own Neshama, sending a part of the Neshama to be a Nefesh in Mashiach Yeshua!
Three Parts
The soul consists of three parts which are called by the Hebrew names, nefesh, ruach and neshama. The word neshama is a cognate of nesheema, which means literally "breath." Ruach means "wind." Nefesh comes from the root nafash, meaning "rest," as in the verse, "On the seventh day, [God] ceased work and rested (nafash)." (Exodus 31:17).
God's exhaling a soul can be compared to a glassblower forming a vessel. The breath (neshama) first leaves his lips, travels as a wind (ruach) and finally comes to rest (nefesh) in the vessel. Of these three levels of the soul, neshama is therefore the highest and closes to God, while nefesh is that aspect of the soul residing in the body. Ruach stands between the two, binding man to his spiritual Source. It is for this reason that Divine Inspiration is called Ruach HaKodesh in Hebrew.
The neshama is affected only by thought, the ruach by speech, and the nefesh by action.
Decomposition of the Body
All souls were created at the beginning of time, and are stored in a celestial treasury until the time of birth.
The soul has its first attachment to the body from the moment of conception, and remains with it until the moment of death. Death is thus often referred to in Hebrew as "departure of the soul" (Yetziat HaNeshama).
We are taught that immediately after death the soul is in a state of great confusion. It is therefore customary to stay near a dying person, so that he not die alone.
The disembodied soul is intensely aware of the physical surroundings of its body. This is especially true before the body is buried. The soul then literally mourns for its body for seven days. This is alluded to in the verse, "His soul mourns for him" (Job 14:22).
For the first 12 months after death, until the body decomposes, the soul has no permanent resting place and thus experiences acute disorientation. It therefore hovers over the body. During this time, the soul is aware of and identifies with the decomposition of the body. The Talmud thus teaches us that "Worms are as painful to the dead as needles in the flesh of the living, as it is written (Job 14:22), 'His flesh grieves for him'." Most commentaries write that this refers to the psychological anguish of the soul in seeing its earthly habitation in a state of decay. The Kabbalists call this Chibut HaKever, "punishment of the grave."
We are taught that what happens to the body in the grave can be even more painful than Gehenom. This experience is not nearly as difficult for the righteous, however, since they never consider their worldly body overly important.
Yeshua skipped this concept, and completed his resurrection as he prophesied. The concept may be fully valid, or merely a supposition, in view of the experience not being able to be validated. The concept may be metaphorical in nature, particularly in the mystical thought of Kabbalists.
Eternal Reward
This is part of the judgment of the soul which occurs during the first year after death. Aside from this, the souls of the wicked are judged for 12 months after death, while others are judged for a lesser time.
It is for this reason that the Kaddish is said for the first 11 months in order not to depict him as an evildoer. For this same reason, when mentioning a parent's name during the first year after death, one should say, "May I be an atonement for his/her resting place" (Hareini Kapparat Mishkavo/a).
The main judgment after death is in Gehenom, where the soul is cleansed in a spiritual fire, and purified so that it can receive its eternal reward.
The souls of the righteous are able to progress higher and higher in the spiritual dimension. Regarding this, the prophet was told, "If you go in My ways… then I will give you a place to move among [the angels] standing here" (Zechariah 3:7). God was showing the prophet a vision of stationary angels, and telling him that he would be able to move among them. While angels are bound to their particular plane, man can move and progress from level to level. This is also alluded to in the verse, "The dust returns to the dust as it was, but the spirit returns to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7).
Fortunately, even as is taught in the Tanach, we are to be resurrected, in the flesh, the re-joining of spirit and earth together...blessedly for some, and not for others.
Some authorities maintain that what the sages called Olam Haba (the "Future World" or "World to Come") refers to the spiritual dimension that the soul enters after leaving the body. The majority, however, consider Olam Haba as a completely new stage of earth life which will be ushered in only after the Messianic Age and the Resurrection of the Dead. According to these authorities, all souls pass into an intermediate dimension called Olam HaNeshamot ("World of Souls") after death. It is there that they are judged and then abide until the resurrection and final judgment.
From "The Handbook of Jewish Thought" (Vol. 2, Maznaim Publishing. Reprinted with permission.
I am always pleased that Messianic understanding of revelation through Yeshua ha Notsri is so easily shown to be underlain by the most ordinary of Jewish thought and expression.
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Post by alon on Sept 18, 2016 13:38:38 GMT -8
*SIGH*
Actually, this is a great article for understanding Jewish thought; and also the dangers of Kaballah (which only the Ultra Orthodox study I believe). That was really good until the part where the soul hangs around after death and judgement happens in stages. Kabalistic mysticism often sounds like Catholic doctrine on Purgatory. Not surprising, since both have pagan origins. And both ignore the freely given forgiveness of Hashem when we repent. We somehow have to earn our place in the Olam Haba. And this is an area where Kabala focuses on; this idea that we earn our place and improving our souls now and after we die. It's not a bad thing to improve the state of our spirituality. Who can argue with that? Me (of course ... it's a gift ...  ) Not that we don't need to do this. I'm doing it right now as I observe Sh'minei Ratzon. But if we negate the free gift of forgiveness in doing so, going through all kinds of convolutions to either earn our place or be punished further then I would say we've negated our salvation- Jew or Messianic. No, "it is appointed once to man to die, then the judgement." (Heb 9:27)
Any attempt to earn our place or to improve on our place by either works here or enduring punishment later is a denial of what Hashem gave freely to us when we cried out to Him for forgiveness.
Note that from "Decomposition of the Body" on the scriptures referenced did not support the conclusion the Kaballist draws from them. One has to already be in agreement and accepting the views of the speaker before finding any validity of this latter half of the article. This is a formula used often by ha'satan to draw us away from sound doctrine. Start with a good speech based on a "truth" that, on it's face sounds really good. Then move on into areas not scripturally supported or doctrinally sound after you've got your readers on board. Bait the line, set the hook, then reel them in.
One source I looked at said about Judaic beliefs on what happens after death "Rabbinic afterlife teachings varied in different places and times, and was never synthesized into one coherent philosophy. As such, the different descriptions of the afterlife are not always consistent with each other." Kabalah is very vague as well, but it opens up a lot of room for the enemy to play in a false doctrinal playground of our own creation.
I think this is self evident here, which is why I allowed it to remain. But that jump from sound doctrine to fantasy is not always so clear. And this is why I err a little on the side of caution when Kaballistic sources are used.
Dan C |
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 19, 2016 11:23:26 GMT -8
I wonder how much of the strangeness in thought on judgment and after-life is because traditional Judaism is trying to fill in the gap of what they aren't getting through the writings of the New Covenant.
Issues regarding the after-life and judgment are laid out pretty clearly in our understanding because of these writings, and when you base your understanding of these writings by referencing the Tanakh for clarification, you have that much less room for confusion on the subject.
G-d doesn't leave gray areas, which is something I am starting to really respect and understand. The disconnect this world presents and the need to reconcile it is where we encounter gray areas. Even those of us who find Him are left with a gray area because our souls are often in a much more spiritual place with G-d then our bodies in this world can physically be.
The gray area is mankind's making, and accepting that has helped me trust G-d more. What's more is I always, always, come back to a deeper gratitude for and realization for the need for Yeshua. It's all about a disconnect. If people don't truly trust G-d, they fill in the blank on their own, so It's confusion upon confusion. We as Messuanic believers have found the grace to accept and come to terms with the gray area through just trusting Him and being grateful to do what He gives us. Praise Yeshua!
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Post by maranguape on Sept 3, 2018 13:39:53 GMT -8
Questor Said: Innermost Essence In addition to his material self, however, man possesses a soul which is unique among all of God's creations. In describing the creation of Adam, the says, "God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils a soul-breath of life (Nishmat Chaim). Man [thus] became a living creature (Nefesh Chaya)" (Genesis 2:7). Even as Yeshua's body was taken of the DNA in Miriam's egg, and altered to be as G-d chose, including being masculine, rather than a derivative clone of Miriam...human, masculine, subject to the Yetzer Hara, yet able to overcome that impulse because of the greatness of the soul-breath of life...a special, pre-existant part of G-d. The is teaching us that the human soul came directly from God's innermost Essence in the same way that a breath issues forth from a person's lungs and chest cavity. The rest of creation, on the other hand, was created with speech, which is a lower level, for just as sound waves are generated by a person but do not contain any air from the lungs, so the rest of creation emanates from God's Power but not from His Essence. It is thus that G-d himself can extend a portion of himself, that has always existed with him, into a tent of human flesh, and that this is not in the least unusual in Jewish thought...just not always considered of G-d's own Neshama, sending a part of the Neshama to be a Nefesh in Mashiach Yeshua! Read more: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3378/elohim-who-fills-universe-exist#ixzz5Q4q0hLCy |
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- there are 70 faces to 
(Note to self- when Sha'ul gives a heavenly d'rash, don't sit in the window ... 
Z-z-z-z-
) Not that we don't need to do this. I'm doing it right now as I observe Sh'minei Ratzon. But if we negate the free gift of forgiveness in doing so, going through all kinds of convolutions to either earn our place or be punished further then I would say we've negated our salvation- Jew or Messianic. No, "it is appointed once to man to die, then the judgement." (Heb 9:27)
