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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 5:36:30 GMT -8
My journey thus far with following  is a struggle I must admit. This is where I will share my journey. Right now my journey is at a stand still, mostly from business with work and housework, being sick or in pain. But does this stop me from following God? No, of course not. I will continue and not give up. My Sabbath journey - not good, most Sabbaths I have to work. When I do have the Sabbath off, which is hit and miss, well, a major struggle for me, at least at this moment in time. Keeping kosher - a struggle. Keeping Feasts - major struggle, mainly from lack of understanding of some feasts. Pesach and Unleavened Bread I understand, it is doing it, and yet having to explain to my husband why I want to do it without causing strife. Other laws of God - haven't got there yet. Understanding of the law - some laws yes, others no. Many questions with God's laws - most definitely Yes, I do know that Yeshua stated that the law will not be done away with or fulfilled until the new heavens and new earth come. Or all has been fulfilled. I understand this, nor do I question it. Most of my struggle is finding the time to study and to understand. And to have someone close by who also understand , etc, would be a great help. Reading the bible as of late has failed. Mainly because finding the time. Yet I do find encouragement here and there, which I know is God's way of saying I am here for you. I have not forgotten you, nor forsaken you. Also I understand that God understands my struggles. It is not easy living in a world that says you have to do this or that, or dress this way or that way, or act this way or that. At times I just want to scream at the world to be silent. Other times I ask God, how long? I see the many struggles of those Christians and believers in Yeshua, who desire to follow after God, yet are told to remain silent when they stand up against perversion, wickedness. Those who stand for God and try to live a holy life before a Holy God are now told to be silent. We do not want to hear you. We want to wallow in our perversion and sin. Christian children who stand up for God are now told to be silent. Will I stand even when asked to be silent? Would I be fined or imprisoned for standing against perversion? I would rather die and be with my God then to stand for such perversion. Often times I ask God why must I be born in such a time as this? Why must I listen to the lies that are being taught to children? Why must I see and hear such perverted sins? And told that society is changing, get with the times? Why? Yeshua stated that the times that we live in will be like the days of Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah. I work in the Christian school and when I hear teachers tell the children about the so called Easter bunny instead of Christ, or stories from the bible told to the children are not the full truth. In this year alone I have seen such change in the children. They are more hyper, they do not listen, they do what they want to do even after being asked to do something. Such disrespect when asked to do something. I am seeing this in the Christian school that I work. Among the children. I shouldn't have to see it or hear it. But I do. I shouldn't have to see or hear that there are Christian music groups are now standing for same sex marriages or lifestyles, but I do. When one such as myself speaks against such perversion or bring to attention why the children are acting out or not listening, I am met with such foolish excuses. Or better yet being faced with false accusations. This I am having a hard time with, yet I stay silent. And cry out to God to give me strength to not give up because of someone else's sin or foolishness. Sorry to have to rant like this, but my heart is heavy. I desire to live for a Holy God so I will continue on my journey. It will be a hard one, yet I know that God will grant me strength to see me through. Moriah Ruth |
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Post by alon on May 4, 2014 9:25:04 GMT -8
My Sabbath journey - not good, most Sabbaths I have to work. When I do have the Sabbath off, which is hit and miss, well, a major struggle for me, at least at this moment in time. Keeping kosher - a struggle. Keeping Feasts - major struggle, mainly from lack of understanding of some feasts. Pesach and Unleavened Bread I understand, it is doing it, and yet having to explain to my husband why I want to do it without causing strife. Other laws of God - haven't got there yet. Understanding of the law - some laws yes, others no. Many questions with God's laws - most definitely Yes, I struggle with these issues as well. We just do the best we can and hang in there. I at least have someone I can ask once a week (when he gets back from Israel, anyhow). I feel for you being there with no human resources. I pray we both will find someone who wishes to share the journey and study with us. That would make it more bearable, if not easier. Same here. Taking our Bible and prayer time is one way the enemy isolates us and replaces joy with doubt. And yes, the world is getting more and more like Sodom and Gomorrah. But we know this for a sign of the end times, and so must hang in there. That, and worse, they have a built in excuse for any accusation- we're Messianic. But this has always been the way of things. Yeshua was persecuted because He told the truth, and worse for them He lived the truth! And that is what we must continue to do- live the truth. Let those kids see the truth in you. They are more observant than we think. You and I are in no position to speak to our spouses about our beliefs. But they can see we mean what we believe, and so can others. It's OK to vent. I really feel for you in the situation you are in, and I pray for you daily. But God has put us where we are for a reason. I told my wife that if I had to give up Messianism for some reason, it would be over. I cannot go back to a lie without having some touchstone with reality, or the truth as I see it. I just couldn't do it. I am backing away from all mainstream ministry except the disabilities one for now. I just pray for a Messianic based ministry or study to replace these ministries. But in the end, all ministries are for God, and so I wait for His timing and leadership. I know it feels like we are marking time here, but trust God that He has a plan and a timetable for both of us. Hold onto what is right and true, even while you have to support your husband in a ministry you don't truly share. But hold the feasts and commandments of Elohim in yur heart and do what little you can. Like right now, I am counting the Omer (when I don't forget to do it- all new to me). That we can both do without causing any conflict. No one else even has to know, unless you tell someone how many days left to Pentecost as a way of opening conversation to witness. Pray for each other too. Strangely when I pray for you and the situation you struggle with I don't feel so alone in all this. So hang in there. Dan |
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Post by alon on May 4, 2014 12:00:10 GMT -8
The AoG pastor preached a pretty good sermon today. Timely, even.
Josh 2:"17 The men said to her, "We will not be guilty of violating the oath you made us swear, provided that 18 when we enter the land, you tie this piece of scarlet cord in the window you let us down from; and you gather together in your house your father, mother, brothers, and your father's entire household. 19 If anyone goes out the doors of your house into the street, he will be responsible for his own blood, and we will be guiltless. But everyone who stays with you in the house - we will be responsible for his blood if anyone lays a hand on him."
She was told to stay "in the house," where she would be under God's protection. If she went out, or her household, they could be killed. She had to have a "resilient faithfulness" to stay where she was told as all around her there was absolute destruction. She had to endure the screams, the cries, the clash of armies, and the quaking as the walls fell next to her. But she was in a "house of promise," just as we may be, which requires us to be faithful until He opens another place for us. "God has not called us to ease, but to obedience!"
Just as we are convicted and renounce untruth, we cannot go back if we truly accept God and trust in Him. Rahab could not go back either; everything she knew was utterly destroyed. But because of her faith, she had a new beginning and a new life with a new people. And of course, she was in the line of the messiah.
John 15:4a "Stay united with me, as I will with you --". You are never in the house alone.
I just thought that was some pretty good confirmation, and a good message, considering I was discussing this very thing just before leaving for church.
Hope it helps.
Dan
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 15:26:37 GMT -8
Thank you Alon for your encouragement.
Many a time I have felt to move on or give up but God always says no. So I stay until He states otherwise. And as I am waiting I will do my part for the Lord, such as be at the school and the store, home or where ever I may be led to go to encourage another person. I won't give up, only because I have come this far. Why would I desire to go back?
Moriah Ruth
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Post by Questor on May 4, 2014 21:17:39 GMT -8
My Sabbath journey - not good, most Sabbaths I have to work. When I do have the Sabbath off, which is hit and miss, well, a major struggle for me, at least at this moment in time. Keeping kosher - a struggle. Keeping Feasts - major struggle, mainly from lack of understanding of some feasts. Pesach and Unleavened Bread I understand, it is doing it, and yet having to explain to my husband why I want to do it without causing strife. Other laws of God - haven't got there yet. Understanding of the law - some laws yes, others no. Many questions with God's laws - most definitely Yes, I struggle with these issues as well. We just do the best we can and hang in there. I at least have someone I can ask once a week (when he gets back from Israel, anyhow). I feel for you being there with no human resources. I pray we both will find someone who wishes to share the journey and study with us. That would make it more bearable, if not easier. Moriah Ruth, Alon, it is a  thing to say, but in being Observant outside of Judaism, and surrounded by the world in which even good Believers in Yehoshua are continually being encouraged not to practice anything in the Scriptures is a terrible place to be, but one in which Abba presumably specially chose us for.
We are going to have an effect on people, even as the Messianic Jews have on us as Messianic Gentiles. They (MJ's) want us to absorb all that we can about , and if we do not walk it out in a Jewish manner, walk it out in a MainC world that doesn't want to be influenced.
Most of the world likes being worldly...well, I used to be a Believing Worldling, and I enjoyed it, but then Abba broke me off the the world, and it was not easy..it was painful to be so seperated from what I knew. I didn't know Abba was being kind in doing this for me, not that I knew I would be further seperated, year by year as I followed the Ruach towards futher seperation.
I keep on remembering what Yehoshua said about finding faith in the world when He returns in Glory...are we seeing all that many people of real faith actually walking out their days in faith, much less obedience? I am blessed to know a few people...perhaps a dozen people around the world, that are trying to do what is in the Scriptures, and those that understand my bent toward following the Scriptures in full are confused by what I do. They are not Observant, but I do not want to be too hard on them, because they have fruit in their lives.
But knowing who I was, and who I have been, and even who I was just yesterday, I have to keep reminding myself that in some way, I am having an influence on people. You are also being influences on people you do not see being influenced.
It makes it hard for us...it is a lonely journey in a lot of ways. You both have spouses who believe in Yehoshua, have some fruit in their lives, and are earnestly attempting to work within their specific set of problems. Because you want to live as a Believer in Observance, that makes them, and everyone in your lives feel wrong in their faith. Consequently they are making it so that you are under persecution.
It is a very minor kind of persecution...no one yet is shunning us completely, and no one is trying to kill us yet, but this is the beginning of what is to come.
The word Tribulation means pressure. And we are feeling it. The pressure to be like everyone else because it is more comfortable for them...and might be for us as well, is hard to bear. We need to count it a good thing to be suffering, even if our suffering is not at a level that other people might see as real tribulation, nor even understand that it hurts to say no to what other people want. It is hard...difficult sometimes in ways we cannot describe, to be seeking Yehoshua's righteousness in our daily walk when other people who truly think they are walking in faith are made to feel guilty for not doing the same, and hence punishing us with their disapproval.
And yet, we have just begun to learn and apply to our lives. We have Yehoshua's grace, but we are all sick of hearing that we don't have to do Obedience...not Obedience...that we do not have to obey G-d's commands, because of Grace! Just walking a observant life in the midst of Believers that have fruit is very strange, even to me, and I don't have to associate with anyone MainC.
But we are not walking as Observing Believers, however small our observance is as yet, for nothing. The Ruach gives me comfort, but I am fully seperated already from family and spouse and old friends who will have nothing much to do with me, and only if I hide any tendency to walk in observance. The more blatantly I become Observant, the fewer my friends are.
Alon, Moriah Ruth, you have the greatest opportunity in front of you that you could have if you would but see it, and aim for it, and fight for it...to slowly, lovingly, and kindly show your spouses and the other Believer's closest to you that you can walk in Observance without becoming a complete stranger to them.
I do not know the result I am having...I know that I am alone a lot, and I have become content with that. But I didn't get to where I am without losing a great deal, because I didn't understand all that was happening, even as I drew nearer to G-d.
Both of you understand where you are, and what you are doing. It is hard, tough, difficult, tedious, frustrating, and even annoying to keep on saying the same few things, even if you do it plainly, or more gently in Christianese to those MainC Believers that you live with and around...and you will have to say it a lot...obedience to God is what Yehoshua taught.
I will be praying for you as you seek to do what the Ruach lays on your heart, despite the pain and suffering of doing it mostly alone, and that soon it will get easier for you without losing your families over it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 2:44:08 GMT -8
Thank you Questor for sharing your thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 3:35:01 GMT -8
My Sabbath Journey
When I became a born-again Christian at the age of 19 years old, I was taught that the Sabbath day was Sunday and not Saturday. In one group that I was involved with many years ago, I was taught and heard that to work on a Sunday was considered a sin. When I was growing up many stores, businesses and malls were closed on Sunday. Not only was it the time of rest for some, it was also a time to spend with family and friends. This is what I was taught.
In the 90's I started to see that some stores were staying open on Sundays. Then one day the mall started to stay open on Sundays. I had a hard time with this only because I was taught that Sunday was the Sabbath. When my husband and I had moved to the Niagara Region there were more stores and businesses open on Sundays. I thought to myself why? Then I had received a job to work in a call center. Which required that every employee worked on a Sunday. Only the management were allowed to take the weekends off. Because at that time I had the belief that I do not work on a Sunday. So I would request that I would not work on Sundays. They stated that this was not possible because then they would have to allow others to do the same. So we had made an agreement that I would work one Sunday a month.
The second call center that I was at there was a young man who was involved in the MJ beliefs. I asked him if he worked on Sundays and he stated yes but he does not work on Saturdays because this is the Sabbath day. Of course this put more questions in my mind than I wanted.
Yet in all honesty even though I was taught earlier in my Christian walk that Sunday was considered the Sabbath, I would question why it stated in the bible that the seventh day was considered the Sabbath day. Now in my mind the seventh day on the calendar is Saturday. So even though I still continued to want my Sundays off the nagging question as to which day was actually the Sabbath kept nattering in my mind. I would push it away, only because I did not understand why the bible was stating that the seventh day was the Sabbath and yet being told at the same time that Sunday was the Sabbath day.
So this had brought many questions to my mind when I started talking to the young MJ person. I started looking for information on when the true Sabbath was. Then I started reading books on the topic. Seventh Day Adventists books, secular books, Christian books, you name it. Then I started to see and question even more.
I started asking my husband what he had thought. He admitted that the Sabbath was the seventh day, which was Saturday. However he had to throw in a comment stating we do not do the Sabbath day, we do the Lord's day which is Sunday. That the Sabbath was for the Jewish people. Of course this put more questions in my mind.
Until one day I decided to make up my mind. I started going by what the bible stated instead of what I was being taught by people. However this is not an easy path for me at the moment. My Sabbath is a struggle, only because my job requires for me to work on the Sabbath. As of late I have had more Sabbath's off because there has not been enough work. This would be my first job at the store as a Product Demonstrator, before I had the school job. If I had a full time job with the school than yes I would get the weekend's off.
Yet, when I do have the Sabbath off on occasion it can be a struggle. Some Sabbath's are great. I can sit quietly and study the bible or read up on MJ material, or simply do a study on a topic. This is very rare. Now on the other Sabbaths that I do have off, my husband wants to do this or that or go here or there. Of course I can't say no because I do not want to cause strife between us. Even some Sabbath's he wants to watch movies. Most times I say no, however if he wants to watch them he can do so. And there were times that I would go and sit quietly in my room and study while he is watching movies. Other times I give in with watching movies with him.
Summer is coming and this means that my husband will be working in another city on Saturdays at his uncle's place. I asked him why he doesn't do it through the week. He stated the family is not home during the week so this gives him a chance on Saturday also to visit with them. When I do have a Sabbath off in the summer this is a joy for me, because my husband is not home and I can sit quietly and study, pray and just relax and rest.
I don't intend to be disrespectful or hateful toward my husband, I just take this as a joy for me because I understand it to be God's way of saying it is our time together. I desire my husband to join me however I know he would object. Some days on a Sabbath when I am not working I may give in to him and other times I don't.
So this is my Sabbath journey for the moment.
Moriah Ruth
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Post by alon on May 5, 2014 9:37:28 GMT -8
Sabbaths are important. But like I said, we do what we can. Your marriage is important too, both to you and to God, so there will obviously be some give and take there. But it sounds like you have a good handle on doing the best you can there.
Can I ask you whether your husband went into the ministry before or after you were called to start your MJ journey?
Dan
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Post by jimmie on May 5, 2014 9:40:59 GMT -8
I Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a  for women to speak in the church. Moriah, Could you ask your husband to show you one scripture that connects the “Lords day” with the first day of the week, and maybe provided some insight to the follow: Sylvester I (314-337 A.D.) was the pope during the reign of Constantine. Here is what he thought of the Bible Sabbath: "If every Sunday is to be observed joyfully by the Christians on account of the resurrection, then every Sabbath on account of the burial is to be execration [loathing or cursing] of the Jews."--quoted by S. R. E. Humbert, Adversus Graecorum calumnias 6, in Patrologie Cursus Completus, Series Latina, ed. J.P. Migne, 1844, p. 143. Council of Laodicea Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). Pope Gregory I The [Catholic] church took the pagan buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, [the Roman] temple to all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs: so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sun day . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom. Balder the beautiful, the White God, the old Scandinavians called him. The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . There is, in truth, something royal, kingly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the Sun of Justice. Hence the church would seem to have said, 'Keep that old, pagan name. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus. The sun is a fitting emblem of Jesus. The Fathers often compared Jesus to the sun; as they compared Mary to the moon."--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809. [Dr. Gildea (1856-19 14) was rector of St. James Catholic Church in London]. |
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Post by alon on May 5, 2014 10:44:09 GMT -8
I Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a for women to speak in the church. Curious scriptural quote- read in context this is an admonishment against disruptive behavior in services and not an admonition to women to be silent and ask their husbands about everything. It's possibly another place where the words of Sha'ul were interpolated as overly harsh. If she is to simply ask her husband about everything then she would have to give up being where God has called her (MJ) and return to mainC. Dan 7:25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.The RC does speak words against what God has ordained, and they do try and wear out those who attempt to keep , and it has changed times (the calendar, holidays and feast days) and the law (reinterpreting the words of Yeshua and the apostles, doing away with ). By extension and by design, mainC still holds all this as truth and actively supports these tenets, often violently enforcing them. So while she might try to open honest dialogue with her husband in some cases, I would not interpret I Cor 14:34 as meaning she is to submit to his position on this issue. I often try to point out to Christians that mainC has in no way severed ties with pagan Catholicism, and that they still hold to the tenets of those two quotes you gave. They also actively try to enforce them on others. Not surprisingly, they don't take too kindly to it. The truth hurts- their roots are far more pagan than Judaic- and hurt people tend to lash out at the one who speaks the truth. Dan C |
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Post by Frank T. Clark on May 5, 2014 13:48:49 GMT -8
The focus on the Sabbath reminds me of the results of a study I did once about the hypocrisy of Protestantism in failing to reject Sunday observance. You may find this interesting. www.iaua.name/Archives/2010-10-01.html HypocrisyIt also points out the hypocrisy of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination for being diligent about the weekly Sabbath but ignoring the yearly Sabbaths (feasts). |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 16:38:15 GMT -8
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and the links Frank. It is greatly appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 16:46:29 GMT -8
Jimmie, With the verse that you shared about women being silent and asking their husbands, what was your intent? And what has that got to do with me sharing about my journey? I respect my husband more than you will ever know. However God is the one whom I serve not my husband. And if God commands me to do something I will be obedient to do so, with or without my husband. Also I am not here to debate rather women are able to teach in a congregation or not. I am just sharing my thoughts of my journey. My husband does admit that the Sabbath is Saturday, however he believes it is for the Jewish people. Also he states that the Lord's day is Sunday which he believes is in the book of Acts. The Lord's day being it was the first day of the week. Again I am not looking to debate this at this time. Moriah Ruth |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 16:52:19 GMT -8
Alon, My husband went into the ministry BEFORE I made my decision to follow . Moriah Ruth |
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Post by jimmie on May 6, 2014 5:46:11 GMT -8
Well I didn't see that reaction I Cor 14:34&35 coming. To me those verse promote harmony not discord. Just as the following verse does: Matt 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. And to have someone close by who also understand , etc, would be a great help. Moriah Ruth I quoted I Cor 14:34&35 with Moriah's above statement in mind. Her husband understands that the Sabbath is for Israel, now he needs to understand that we are grafted into Israel. That can be drawn out of him with wisely framed yet harmless questions. |
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is a struggle I must admit. This is where I will share my journey. Right now my journey is at a stand still, mostly from business with work and housework, being sick or in pain. But does this stop me from following God? No, of course not. I will continue and not give up. 
thing to say, but in being 
for women to speak in the church.
