- there are 70 faces to 
Post by alon on Mar 9, 2014 7:30:20 GMT -8
Sub-forum title: Hebraic Roots of Christianity, did Yeshua start a new religion?
Actually, the main antithetical religion of the time which Yeshua opposed (which had little to nothing to do with “the Pharisees”) was and still is in place. In the New Testament there are several references to Greeks and Hellenism, the period of history from the death of Alexander the Great in 323 B.C. to the death of Cleopatra VII, the last Macedonian ruler of Egypt, in 30 BCE. This is basically the period represented by that blank page between Mal'aki and Mattithyahu in your Bible. Not referenced, but easily seen are the redactions to much of the “Greek New Testament” documents by that same religious system in the form of Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. Greek thinking is a result of a gradual process that was a major influence on the known world at the time of Yeshua. The early Hellenistic period was compounded from Macedonian and Near Eastern traditions, which became the dominant political, religious, and social influence in the eastern Mediterranean after the death of Alexander. This is the background for the Hellenized Jews in Yeshua's day.
"Helen" (Hellenism) comes from the writings of Homer, who influenced Greek art, science, philosophy, religion, and social justice. He wrote "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey"- epics of the 12th century BCE, the time of the Trojan War.
Most pagan cultures, including the Greeks, have a woman or goddess mother representative of that culture (i.e. Isis, Astarte, Ishtar). Their gods were to be revered and celebrated, but the intellect was to guide man in this life. This is why Sha’ul tells us in Qorintiyim Aleph 1:22 “For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,”
Homer is revered as the greatest of Greek epic poets; his epics are the beginning of the Western canon of literature. Homer's poems were the basis for the writing of the Greek myths of ancient gods and goddesses- the explanation of the thinking of all the gods. Called the logos- a mixture of religious concepts from several cultural sources, this philosophy was a major influence on the thinking of the Gentiles and Hellenized Jews that Sha'ul encountered- an influence that has stayed with the church now for over 2000 years. It is scripturally represented by Jezebel, Babylon, the queen of heaven (modern Mary, biblically Yirmeyahu 7 & 44), and others. The Iliad, a story of the Trojan War, tells the story of heroes who sail far from Greece to go to war with the Trojans. Their mission- to rescue Helen, the Greek queen lured away by the son of the king of Troy.
In 342 BCE Philip (Alexanders' father) hired Aristotle , a Greek philosopher who embraced both practical and theoretical knowledge to teach. Lessons were held usually in the open air in the sanctuary of the Nymphs near Mieza . Aristotle’s was a huge influence on Alexander in the fields of logic, metaphysics, poetry, politics, cosmology, geography, botany, zoology and medicine. Above all he learned to put faith in the intellect.
It was Homer who introduced the ideas of mythology and hero worship, which were the core of Hellinism. The dark age of Greece (900-700 BCE) saw the construction of gymnasiums- Greek arenas where nude athletes would appease the gods by their great feats, and crowds cheered the athletes and the gods. Gymnos is Greek for naked. This period also began the polis, or city-state, designed to honor the gods and to gather the social elite. Theaters, were erected to host comedies and later, Greek tragedies. The word tragedy derives from two Greek words; tragos- goat, and oide- song. This was due to the presence of satyrs in the plays. Half goat and half men, in actuality minor gods, they influenced the actions of the characters. So we were becoming our own gods, yet we still had an "out" on taking responsibility for our actions.
Later, in the Archaic age, theaters hosted debates between great (and aspiring great) philosophers- the great thinkers and intellects, they produced Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.
In the aftermath of the Peloponnesian War around the 4th century BCE we come to the Athenian age. Socrates, a classical Greek (Athenian) philosopher of this time, became the most influential thinker in the Western world. He was responsible for the philosophy that man's evil actions are caused by ignorance. He developed the Socratic method/inductive reasoning - reasoning from particular facts to a general idea. Seemingly logical, however the reasoning depended upon what was perceived as fact. Basically the begginings of feelings based thinking, and thus totally illogical, but all but universal thought today.
Life was based upon thoughts and ideas and the belief that no one knowingly did evil. A thorn in the flesh of his peers, he separated life from instructions of the gods and taught reliance on our own moral intellect to lead a happy life. He sought wisdom regardless the source, and every culture contributed to the collective idea of morality. I once knew a "minister" who believed Hitler was not wrong, simply because he was doing what in his mind was the right thing.
Plato, Socrates' student, @ 420 – 348BC, was a philosopher, mathematician, writer of philosophical dialogues, and founder of the Academy in Athens- the first institution of higher learning in Classical Greece and the Western world. Plato introduces the demiurge, the assembling and care of the physical universe. This is one of the cornerstones of Gnosticism, rampant in the 1st cen CE and still today.
The demiurge is not the same as the creator in the familiar monotheism. Both the demiurge and the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are considered either uncreated and eternal, or the product of some other being. These ideas are seen today in the belief that Yeshua was a created being as well as the “Big Bang” nonsense taught as a belief system (religion) in our schools. I have to believe that Plato would be proud of our institutions of higher education, todays descendants of his academy.
"Demiurge" is an English word from a Latinized form of the Greek dēmiourgos, literally "public worker", which gradually came to mean "producer," and eventually "creator". Philosophically it derived from Plato's Timaeus, written @ 360 BCE, where the demiurge is presented as creator of the universe. Later the demiurge came to be the fashioner of the real, perceptible world. In Gnosticism, the material universe is evil, whereas the non-material world is good. Accordingly, the demiurge is malevolent, as it is itself of the material world. I know this to be an active theology, as I once held a similar view.
In fact, it takes very little thought to see these ideas at work in both the “New Testament” and in Christianity as a whole today. Their whole focus is on getting to Heaven with as many credits as possible. I've been told by Catholics that as boys, they used to leave confession hoping to be hit by a bus because they could cheat Purgatory.
So no, “Jesus”, nor “Paul”, nor any of the contributors to the “NT” started anything “New,” especially any new religion. The “New” was 4oo years old at the time of Yeshua- older still if we were to dig into its origins (and thus violate the policy of no lo-o-o-ng posts). And it was and is diametrically opposed to the fact and message of Yeshua and the apostles.
Qoheleth 1:9 bet, "and there is no new thing under the sun." Or in the "Greek New Testament" either. And certainly not in our primary religious systems, which by the grace of HaShem we are no longer a part of.
Dan C
Actually, the main antithetical religion of the time which Yeshua opposed (which had little to nothing to do with “the Pharisees”) was and still is in place. In the New Testament there are several references to Greeks and Hellenism, the period of history from the death of Alexander the Great in 323 B.C. to the death of Cleopatra VII, the last Macedonian ruler of Egypt, in 30 BCE. This is basically the period represented by that blank page between Mal'aki and Mattithyahu in your Bible. Not referenced, but easily seen are the redactions to much of the “Greek New Testament” documents by that same religious system in the form of Roman Catholic and Protestant churches. Greek thinking is a result of a gradual process that was a major influence on the known world at the time of Yeshua. The early Hellenistic period was compounded from Macedonian and Near Eastern traditions, which became the dominant political, religious, and social influence in the eastern Mediterranean after the death of Alexander. This is the background for the Hellenized Jews in Yeshua's day.
"Helen" (Hellenism) comes from the writings of Homer, who influenced Greek art, science, philosophy, religion, and social justice. He wrote "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey"- epics of the 12th century BCE, the time of the Trojan War.
Most pagan cultures, including the Greeks, have a woman or goddess mother representative of that culture (i.e. Isis, Astarte, Ishtar). Their gods were to be revered and celebrated, but the intellect was to guide man in this life. This is why Sha’ul tells us in Qorintiyim Aleph 1:22 “For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,”
Homer is revered as the greatest of Greek epic poets; his epics are the beginning of the Western canon of literature. Homer's poems were the basis for the writing of the Greek myths of ancient gods and goddesses- the explanation of the thinking of all the gods. Called the logos- a mixture of religious concepts from several cultural sources, this philosophy was a major influence on the thinking of the Gentiles and Hellenized Jews that Sha'ul encountered- an influence that has stayed with the church now for over 2000 years. It is scripturally represented by Jezebel, Babylon, the queen of heaven (modern Mary, biblically Yirmeyahu 7 & 44), and others. The Iliad, a story of the Trojan War, tells the story of heroes who sail far from Greece to go to war with the Trojans. Their mission- to rescue Helen, the Greek queen lured away by the son of the king of Troy.
In 342 BCE Philip (Alexanders' father) hired Aristotle , a Greek philosopher who embraced both practical and theoretical knowledge to teach. Lessons were held usually in the open air in the sanctuary of the Nymphs near Mieza . Aristotle’s was a huge influence on Alexander in the fields of logic, metaphysics, poetry, politics, cosmology, geography, botany, zoology and medicine. Above all he learned to put faith in the intellect.
It was Homer who introduced the ideas of mythology and hero worship, which were the core of Hellinism. The dark age of Greece (900-700 BCE) saw the construction of gymnasiums- Greek arenas where nude athletes would appease the gods by their great feats, and crowds cheered the athletes and the gods. Gymnos is Greek for naked. This period also began the polis, or city-state, designed to honor the gods and to gather the social elite. Theaters, were erected to host comedies and later, Greek tragedies. The word tragedy derives from two Greek words; tragos- goat, and oide- song. This was due to the presence of satyrs in the plays. Half goat and half men, in actuality minor gods, they influenced the actions of the characters. So we were becoming our own gods, yet we still had an "out" on taking responsibility for our actions.
Later, in the Archaic age, theaters hosted debates between great (and aspiring great) philosophers- the great thinkers and intellects, they produced Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.
In the aftermath of the Peloponnesian War around the 4th century BCE we come to the Athenian age. Socrates, a classical Greek (Athenian) philosopher of this time, became the most influential thinker in the Western world. He was responsible for the philosophy that man's evil actions are caused by ignorance. He developed the Socratic method/inductive reasoning - reasoning from particular facts to a general idea. Seemingly logical, however the reasoning depended upon what was perceived as fact. Basically the begginings of feelings based thinking, and thus totally illogical, but all but universal thought today.
Life was based upon thoughts and ideas and the belief that no one knowingly did evil. A thorn in the flesh of his peers, he separated life from instructions of the gods and taught reliance on our own moral intellect to lead a happy life. He sought wisdom regardless the source, and every culture contributed to the collective idea of morality. I once knew a "minister" who believed Hitler was not wrong, simply because he was doing what in his mind was the right thing.
Plato, Socrates' student, @ 420 – 348BC, was a philosopher, mathematician, writer of philosophical dialogues, and founder of the Academy in Athens- the first institution of higher learning in Classical Greece and the Western world. Plato introduces the demiurge, the assembling and care of the physical universe. This is one of the cornerstones of Gnosticism, rampant in the 1st cen CE and still today.
The demiurge is not the same as the creator in the familiar monotheism. Both the demiurge and the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are considered either uncreated and eternal, or the product of some other being. These ideas are seen today in the belief that Yeshua was a created being as well as the “Big Bang” nonsense taught as a belief system (religion) in our schools. I have to believe that Plato would be proud of our institutions of higher education, todays descendants of his academy.
"Demiurge" is an English word from a Latinized form of the Greek dēmiourgos, literally "public worker", which gradually came to mean "producer," and eventually "creator". Philosophically it derived from Plato's Timaeus, written @ 360 BCE, where the demiurge is presented as creator of the universe. Later the demiurge came to be the fashioner of the real, perceptible world. In Gnosticism, the material universe is evil, whereas the non-material world is good. Accordingly, the demiurge is malevolent, as it is itself of the material world. I know this to be an active theology, as I once held a similar view.
In fact, it takes very little thought to see these ideas at work in both the “New Testament” and in Christianity as a whole today. Their whole focus is on getting to Heaven with as many credits as possible. I've been told by Catholics that as boys, they used to leave confession hoping to be hit by a bus because they could cheat Purgatory.
So no, “Jesus”, nor “Paul”, nor any of the contributors to the “NT” started anything “New,” especially any new religion. The “New” was 4oo years old at the time of Yeshua- older still if we were to dig into its origins (and thus violate the policy of no lo-o-o-ng posts). And it was and is diametrically opposed to the fact and message of Yeshua and the apostles.
Qoheleth 1:9 bet, "and there is no new thing under the sun." Or in the "Greek New Testament" either. And certainly not in our primary religious systems, which by the grace of HaShem we are no longer a part of.
Dan C
C
