|
|
Post by Questor on Feb 8, 2014 2:08:40 GMT -8
I was just looking at something in Revelation...
Revelation 12:1-17 (CJB)
1 Now a great sign was seen in heaven — a woman clothed with the sun, under her feet the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 She was pregnant and about to give birth, and she screamed in the agony of labor.
3 Another sign was seen in heaven: there was a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven royal crowns.
4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of heaven and threw them down to the earth. It stood in front of the woman about to give birth, so that it might devour the child the moment it was born.
5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, the one who will rule all the nations with a staff of iron. But her child was snatched up to God and his throne;
6 and she fled into the desert, where she has a place prepared by God so that she can be taken care of for 1,260 days.
7 Next there was a battle in heaven — Mikha’el and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But it was not strong enough to win, so that there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9 The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come God’s victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah; because the Accuser of our brothers, who accuses them day and night before God, has been thrown out!
11 “They defeated him because of the Lamb’s blood and because of the message of their witness. Even when facing death they did not cling to life.
12 “Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea, for the Adversary has come down to you, and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!”
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled down to the earth, he went in pursuit of the woman who had given birth to the male child.
14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where she is taken care of for a season and two seasons and half a season, away from the serpent’s presence.
15 The serpent spewed water like a river out of its mouth after the woman, in order to sweep her away in the flood;
16 but the land came to her rescue — it opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon had spewed out of its mouth.
17 The dragon was infuriated over the woman and went off to fight the rest of her children, those who obey God’s commands and bear witness to Yeshua.
I have a lot of questions about this chapter, and would welcome any insight, but I'd like to ask my questions one bunch at a time, and then keep going on this thread until we thrash out everything in it.
First Set of Questions:
When was the Adversary tossed out of heaven, and down to Earth?
Has it even happened yet, or is it yet future?
Is it mere symbolism, or literal?
Is it merely spiritual, or is it or can it be physical?
|
|
|
|
Post by Frank T. Clark on Feb 8, 2014 12:00:24 GMT -8
When was the Adversary tossed out of heaven, and down to Earth? Complicated question and again a little esoteric. My study leads me to believe that Satan was cast out shortly after the Crucifixion leading to the outpouring of the spirit at Pentecost. There are a lot of little details that add up to this conclusion. I did a preliminary presentation on this subject. www.iaua.name/Archives/2012/2012-05-25.html |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Feb 8, 2014 14:11:10 GMT -8
I was just looking at something in Revelation...Revelation 12:1-17 (CJB)
1 Now a great sign was seen in heaven — a woman clothed with the sun, under her feet the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 She was pregnant and about to give birth, and she screamed in the agony of labor.
3 Another sign was seen in heaven: there was a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven royal crowns.
4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of heaven and threw them down to the earth. It stood in front of the woman about to give birth, so that it might devour the child the moment it was born.
5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, the one who will rule all the nations with a staff of iron. But her child was snatched up to God and his throne;
6 and she fled into the desert, where she has a place prepared by God so that she can be taken care of for 1,260 days.
7 Next there was a battle in heaven — Mikha’el and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But it was not strong enough to win, so that there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9 The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come God’s victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah; because the Accuser of our brothers, who accuses them day and night before God, has been thrown out!
11 “They defeated him because of the Lamb’s blood and because of the message of their witness. Even when facing death they did not cling to life.
12 “Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea, for the Adversary has come down to you, and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!”
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled down to the earth, he went in pursuit of the woman who had given birth to the male child.
14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where she is taken care of for a season and two seasons and half a season, away from the serpent’s presence.
15 The serpent spewed water like a river out of its mouth after the woman, in order to sweep her away in the flood;
16 but the land came to her rescue — it opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon had spewed out of its mouth.
17 The dragon was infuriated over the woman and went off to fight the rest of her children, those who obey God’s commands and bear witness to Yeshua.
I have a lot of questions about this chapter, and would welcome any insight, but I'd like to ask my questions one bunch at a time, and then keep going on this thread until we thrash out everything in it.
First Set of Questions:
When was the Adversary tossed out of heaven, and down to Earth?
Has it even happened yet, or is it yet future?
Is it mere symbolism, or literal?
Is it merely spiritual, or is it or can it be physical? Looking at verses 4 & 5, 10 & 11: 4 Stars in prophesy always refers to people. So the third of the stars swept fro heaven has to be true believers- most likely those of us who profess Messianic beliefs but in the end will fail the test. It could also mean Christians who do not keep  , since they likely make up about a third of the worlds population, depending on who all you call Christian. 5 As it is Biblical prophesy, more than one event may be referenced. This could refer to Yeshua as fulfillment of the Spring feasts. But Biblical patterns tend to repeat, so I think this could also refer to those who are true to ; even those who are killed, as "For to me, life is the Messiah, and death is gain." 10 We know the accuser is still before God with our failures. 11 And again, this could refer to the Disciples, almost all of whom were killed for their witness; and those who in the end stand the test and are killed for their fiath and refusal to worship the Beast. So my answer is- "both" as far as prophetic timeline concerning believers; but not until the end as far as the Beasts being thrown down (however his fait was sealed at the resurrection). And both symbolic and spiritual, literal and physical. Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Feb 8, 2014 20:35:55 GMT -8
When was the Adversary tossed out of heaven, and down to Earth? Complicated question and again a little esoteric. My study leads me to believe that Satan was cast out shortly after the Crucifixion leading to the outpouring of the spirit at Pentecost. There are a lot of little details that add up to this conclusion. I did a preliminary presentation on this subject. www.iaua.name/Archives/2012/2012-05-25.html
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Revelation 12:10-13
Our Saviour saw a prophetic vision of encouragement as He approached the cross.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 10:18
He spoke of the coming judgment of Satan and being cast out as associated with His sacrifice on the cross.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
31 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 12:31-32
But if Yeshua had seen haSatan fall prior to his incarnation in a human body, it seems out of sequence for haSatan being thrown down AFTER Yeshua's death and resurrection. |
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Feb 8, 2014 21:32:18 GMT -8
I was just looking at something in Revelation...Revelation 12:1-17 (CJB)
1 Now a great sign was seen in heaven — a woman clothed with the sun, under her feet the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 She was pregnant and about to give birth, and she screamed in the agony of labor.
3 Another sign was seen in heaven: there was a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven royal crowns.
4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of heaven and threw them down to the earth. It stood in front of the woman about to give birth, so that it might devour the child the moment it was born.
5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, the one who will rule all the nations with a staff of iron. But her child was snatched up to God and his throne;
6 and she fled into the desert, where she has a place prepared by God so that she can be taken care of for 1,260 days.
7 Next there was a battle in heaven — Mikha’el and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But it was not strong enough to win, so that there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9 The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come God’s victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah; because the Accuser of our brothers, who accuses them day and night before God, has been thrown out!
11 “They defeated him because of the Lamb’s blood and because of the message of their witness. Even when facing death they did not cling to life.
12 “Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea, for the Adversary has come down to you, and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!”
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled down to the earth, he went in pursuit of the woman who had given birth to the male child.
14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where she is taken care of for a season and two seasons and half a season, away from the serpent’s presence.
15 The serpent spewed water like a river out of its mouth after the woman, in order to sweep her away in the flood;
16 but the land came to her rescue — it opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon had spewed out of its mouth.
17 The dragon was infuriated over the woman and went off to fight the rest of her children, those who obey God’s commands and bear witness to Yeshua.
I have a lot of questions about this chapter, and would welcome any insight, but I'd like to ask my questions one bunch at a time, and then keep going on this thread until we thrash out everything in it.
First Set of Questions:
When was the Adversary tossed out of heaven, and down to Earth?
Has it even happened yet, or is it yet future?
Is it mere symbolism, or literal?
Is it merely spiritual, or is it or can it be physical? Looking at verses 4 & 5, 10 & 11: 4 Stars in prophesy always refers to people. So the third of the stars swept fro heaven has to be true believers- most likely those of us who profess Messianic beliefs but in the end will fail the test. It could also mean Christians who do not keep , since they likely make up about a third of the worlds population, depending on who all you call Christian. 5 As it is Biblical prophesy, more than one event may be referenced. This could refer to Yeshua as fulfillment of the Spring feasts. But Biblical patterns tend to repeat, so I think this could also refer to those who are true to ; even those who are killed, as "For to me, life is the Messiah, and death is gain." 10 We know the accuser is still before God with our failures.
This also shows in Revelation at the conclusion of Armeggon, where two spirits are thrown down into the Lake of Fire, The Beast and the False Prophet, and a third, haSatan, is placed into the pit for the Millenium, to let out later to tempt the world again for a short space. So is there then a fourth as Prosecuting attorney? Or does the Prosecuting attorney no exist, as the deeds of all men are written down in a book that is opened at Judgement.
Revelation 19:19-21 (CJB)
19 I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to do battle with the rider of the horse and his army.
20 But the beast was taken captive, and with it the false prophet who, in its presence, had done the miracles which he had used to deceive those who had received the mark of the beast and those who had worshipped his image. The beast and the false prophet were both thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
21 The rest were killed with the sword that goes out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
Revelation 20:1-3 (CJB)
1 Next I saw an angel coming down from heaven, who had the key to the Abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], and chained him up for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, locked it and sealed it over him; so that he could not deceive the nations any more until the thousand years were over. After that, he has to be set free for a little while.
Revelation 13:3-18 (CJB)
3 One of the heads of the beast appeared to have received a fatal wound, but its fatal wound was healed, and the whole earth followed after the beast in amazement.
4 They worshipped the dragon, because he had given his authority to the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who can fight against it?”
5 It was given a mouth speaking arrogant blasphemies; and it was given authority to act for forty-two months.
6 So it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to insult his name and his Sh’khinah, and those living in heaven;
7 it was allowed to make war on God’s holy people and to defeat them; and it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
8 Everyone living on earth will worship it except those whose names are written in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb slaughtered before the world was founded.
9 Those who have ears, let them hear!
10 “If anyone is meant for captivity, into captivity he goes! If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he is to be killed!” This is when God’s holy people must persevere and trust!
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth. It had two horns like those of a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.
12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence; and it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, the one whose fatal wound had been healed.
13 It performs great miracles, even causing fire to come down from heaven onto the earth as people watch.
14 It deceives the people living on earth by the miracles it is allowed to perform in the presence of the beast, and it tells them to make an image honoring the beast that was struck by the sword but came alive again.
15 It was allowed to put breath into the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast could even speak; and it was allowed to cause anyone who would not worship the image of the beast to be put to death.
16 Also it forces everyone — great and small, rich and poor, free and slave — to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead
17 preventing anyone from buying or selling unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This is where wisdom is needed; those who understand should count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person, and its number is 666.
Revelation 20:11-15 (CJB)
11 Next I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, both great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
13 The sea gave up the dead in it; and Death and Sh’ol gave up the dead in them; and they were judged, each according to what he had done. 14 Then Death and Sh’ol were hurled into the lake of fire. This is the second death — the lake of fire.
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was hurled into the lake of fire.
We have three spirits doing different things, a beast, a prophet, and a dragon; and two books out of which people are judged. But there is no Adversary in heaven...he's in a pit. And all the works and deeds of men, for good or ill, and those that are Yeshua's are written in two separate books.
11 And again, this could refer to the Disciples, almost all of whom were killed for their witness; and those who in the end stand the test and are killed for their fiath and refusal to worship the Beast. So my answer is- "both" as far as prophetic timeline concerning believers; but not until the end as far as the Beasts being thrown down (however his fate was sealed at the resurrection). And both symbolic and spiritual, literal and physical. Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by Frank T. Clark on Feb 9, 2014 12:38:57 GMT -8
I found your presentation had some good points made mostly by a good quoting of the Scriptures. Nicely done... But if Yeshua had seen haSatan fall prior to his incarnation in a human body, it seems out of sequence for haSatan being thrown down AFTER Yeshua's death and resurrection. Scripture is our only reliable source of witness. What scripture provides your basis of saying the fall of Satan was seen prior to the incarnation? |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Feb 9, 2014 13:10:52 GMT -8
Quotes function is going whacko, and I'm only marginally less mentally fogged in, so I'll just try a cut and paste. Hope it works ...
That prophesy or scripture in general can refer to more than one event, time or situation and that Biblical patterns tend to repeat is a Biblical principal. I suppose you either agree with this or you don’t- not sure what else to say about it. An example would be the pattern that God makes a covenant with us, then we break it, and He makes another way building on the old covenant. True from Adam to Questor and Dan.
The scripture I quoted there is from Pilipiyim 1:21.
There are numerouse references to ha satan as being our accuser before God, all in present tense that I can recollect. Here are two:
Rev 12: 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, "Now have come God's victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah; because the Accuser of our brothers, who accuses them day and night before God, has been thrown out!
Zech 3: 1 He showed me Y'hoshua the cohen hagadol standing before the angel of ADONAI, with the Accuser [Hebrew: Satan] standing at his right to accuse him.
And I’d hardly call it an honored place in Heaven to be standing as the accuser of God’s people before that same God who was and is your creator- the One you betrayed. Remember too that he once held the highest office amongst the angels, so it is safe to say he is a very powerful being. Yehezqel 28:14 describes him as a cherub. As time doesn’t exist outside the physical realm which we inhabit (reference Albert Einstein for that one) he can act as both tempter and accuser with ease. Consider too your own argument that he is our tempter: doesn’t that presuppose that he can act upon the willful lusts of billions of people at once? Small issue then to act as witness against us before God as well. And he does have his minions, both spiritual and corporeal to help.
Speaking of which, you seem to be confusing some of those spiritual minions with ha satan. There is only one main adversary, and he doesn’t share power with anyone! That is what got him in trouble in Yehezqel 28:17, and thrown out of the place of honor he held in heaven in vs. 18 (also Luke 10:18). Scripture is clear, as I pointed out, that he still had access to Heaven. (Iyob 1:6-12; Zekaryah 3:1,2).
As I’ve just shown, he is not presently in a pit, and he does still have access to Heaven. And you are still getting your spirits mixed up- fine deal if properly done at a bar, but not so good a thing in eschatology.
Hopefully the references above gave clarity. These are just some basics as I understand them- eschatology really isn't my thing- I have enough to do just getting the present right. Too often I'm the one getting accused ...
Dan C
|
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Feb 10, 2014 20:16:00 GMT -8
I think I am asking the wrong questions then.
I'll split up the questions into something more basic...like who is who and what do they do...yeah, I am confused!
|
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Feb 12, 2014 22:05:19 GMT -8
I was just looking at something in Revelation...Revelation 12:1-17 (CJB)
1 Now a great sign was seen in heaven — a woman clothed with the sun, under her feet the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 She was pregnant and about to give birth, and she screamed in the agony of labor.
3 Another sign was seen in heaven: there was a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven royal crowns.
4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of heaven and threw them down to the earth. It stood in front of the woman about to give birth, so that it might devour the child the moment it was born.
5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, the one who will rule all the nations with a staff of iron. But her child was snatched up to God and his throne;
6 and she fled into the desert, where she has a place prepared by God so that she can be taken care of for 1,260 days.
7 Next there was a battle in heaven — Mikha’el and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But it was not strong enough to win, so that there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9 The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come God’s victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah; because the Accuser of our brothers, who accuses them day and night before God, has been thrown out!
11 “They defeated him because of the Lamb’s blood and because of the message of their witness. Even when facing death they did not cling to life.
12 “Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea, for the Adversary has come down to you, and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!”
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled down to the earth, he went in pursuit of the woman who had given birth to the male child.
14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where she is taken care of for a season and two seasons and half a season, away from the serpent’s presence.
15 The serpent spewed water like a river out of its mouth after the woman, in order to sweep her away in the flood;
16 but the land came to her rescue — it opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon had spewed out of its mouth.
17 The dragon was infuriated over the woman and went off to fight the rest of her children, those who obey God’s commands and bear witness to Yeshua.
I have a lot of questions about this chapter, and would welcome any insight, but I'd like to ask my questions one bunch at a time, and then keep going on this thread until we thrash out everything in it.
First Set of Questions:
When was the Adversary tossed out of heaven, and down to Earth?
Has it even happened yet, or is it yet future?
Is it mere symbolism, or literal?
Is it merely spiritual, or is it or can it be physical?
I have been looking at the Scriptures, and see plenty of demons around. I also have noticed that there is an Adversary, that has or had rights of access to heavenly places, and has been quoted in a conversation with YHVH. In Revelation, there are prophecy/ies that seem to blur the line.
My first question this time around is who is the Adversary? Has he got a name? A title/type as in Angel or spirit or demon?
Being a Messianic Gentile, I have heard of a Lucifer, which may or may not actually be a personality, but a description or derivation from translation from Greek into Latin.
Anyway, I do not really want to discuss the prophecy that I posted, but the reality of spirits/demons/devil/Adversary that are mentioned there.
As some of you know, I experience a occasional supernatural event, and also experience much opposition in spiritual perceptions/strongholds as they may be called. In order to get communication going, I need to have a vocabulary to work with here.
Can someone give me a breakdown of what is what and who is who?
|
|
|
|
Post by Frank T. Clark on Feb 13, 2014 6:01:12 GMT -8
I believe the Bible is clear that there is one primary fallen angel who was named Lucifer. He rebelled against God. He dragged a third of the angels into his error of pride. These are now sometimes called demons. Humanity entered into the great controversy by disobedience and are now choosing who they will serve. All evil angels were cast out to the earth. Final Judgment is coming when all sin and sinners will be destroyed.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Feb 13, 2014 13:27:53 GMT -8
The one chief fallen angel is referred to as ha satan, the adversary. There are many who believe this is a proper name, "Satan." I have difficulty believing this. My personal opinion is that his name was taken from him when he was cast down. In early Hebrew and mid-eastern thought, to remove someone's name was to remove their identity. Names had meaning- so if you want to give him a name then "Satan," or "Adversary" would be technically correct. I hesitate to give him back what God took away. To me, he is ha satan- the adversary of my soul.
As to how many angels the angel of light ("Lucifer," again if you just must name him) took with him as he fell: as previously stated, stars in Biblical prophecy always refer to people, not angels. And everything in Revelation, including the seven letters, is prophecy. Being of a spiritual nature, it can refer to more than one event. So if anyone wishes to believe that ha satan took 1/3rd of the angels, I have no quarrel. He took a bunch, any way we look at it. The important thing to understand in this is that it does refer to a future, end times event; and it speaks of people, probably believers who fall away. If we don't understand this point, then how can we prepare for it? I pray continually for courage of conviction when the time comes, if it comes in my time.
Dan C
|
|
|
|
Post by Yedidyah on Feb 13, 2014 14:49:34 GMT -8
Shalom!
Interesting topic to study on. Something we should be throwing into the mix is Satan (The Adversary) is not always talking about a single person.
Matthew 16:23
23 But Yeshua turned his back on Kefa, saying, “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle in my path, because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective!”
Are we to take it literal that Kefa was the Adversary or rather a type of Adversary by not following the perspective of Hashem but rather through the filter of man's own eyes.
Just thought I would add a perspective on the subject.
Blessings!
Yedidyah
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Feb 13, 2014 15:00:49 GMT -8
Shalom! Interesting topic to study on. Something we should be throwing into the mix is Satan (The Adversary) is not always talking about a single person. Matthew 16:23
23 But Yeshua turned his back on Kefa, saying, “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle in my path, because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective!”Are we to take it literal that Kefa was the Adversary or rather a type of Adversary by not following the perspective of Hashem but rather through the filter of man's own eyes. Just thought I would add a perspective on the subject. Blessings! Yedidyah Good point! As I said, it simply means "the adversary" or "an adversary." Again, if you must give him a name that is appropriate; however, I would suggest it might be better to call him "HaSatan" if that is what you want. Keeps things in a little better perspective- "The Adversary"- not just some powerful dude named "Satan." Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by michaeli on Apr 12, 2014 4:05:42 GMT -8
Shalom,
Satan lost his position in heaven, Ez28. But the War in Heaven, Isa14 - Rev12 - is yet future. It occurs during the 6th Seal. And at that time the False Jewish Messiah is revealed as the Anti-Christ.
Michaeli
|
|
|
|
Post by Yedidyah on Apr 13, 2014 7:35:45 GMT -8
Shalom, Satan lost his position in heaven, Ez28. But the War in Heaven, Isa14 - Rev12 - is yet future. It occurs during the 6th Seal. And at that time the False Jewish Messiah is revealed as the Anti-Christ. Michaeli So the anti-Christ is going to be only for the Jew's? And then let me guess all the Christian's will be fine with their 30,000 denominations that all have it right? Based on your posts I don't think you care much for the Jewish people or even anything messianic. If you wish to learn that is great but this site is not a preaching tool for -less self proclaimed prophets. The bible is clear on the judgements for false prophets and there is no covering for an unrepentant person, something to think about. Maybe you got hit a bit to hard from that rock in the Holy Land? Read the rules or things won't last long here on this forum for you. Yedidyah |
|
- there are 70 faces to 
