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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 11:22:55 GMT -8
My struggles with Messianic Judaism, or should I state my struggles with following the  or God's laws. It is not that I don't desire to follow God's law, I do. My struggle is with my husband and others who state that if I follow God's law than I am coming under the law, or I am putting myself in bondage to the law or that I am becoming legalistic. Or being told by my husband that I am becoming a Jew if I start doing and that I would no longer be considered a Christian. Or that I am slapping God in the face if I choose to follow . Or that I am going backwards. The other issue is seeing both sides of the coin and not sure which one is the most true. Rather God's law is still in affect or not. Would I be slapping God in the face if I chose to follow His laws? Would I lose my salvation? Where does God's grace come in when following His laws? Many a time I think that I should just simply give it all up. Other times I think that I should stop going to church altogether and let the Holy Spirit minister to me with regards to the . There are verses that I do see that is true when it comes to the . I also believe that Yeshua did not do away or destroy the . He simply completed them or finished them. But what does this mean exactly? Also there is a verse that states that the law will not pass away until the new earth is come. What does this exactly mean? My many thoughts go back and forth like a ping pong ball. Is there no end to this? If my frustration is speaking it is not towards anyone here. I just need to find answers to my many question. Yet I feel so lost, confused and overwhelmed as to where I should start. There are many groups out there also when it comes to Messianic Judaism. I do not want to fall into the wrong group either.   Moriah Ruth |
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Post by Yedidyah on Dec 26, 2013 11:55:25 GMT -8
Shalom! Thanks for sharing your heart in such honesty. Ok so I am going to share a metaphorical response to "Under the Law" Say you are driving down the road and you see the speed limit clearly posted. You follow the posted speed for a while but then think to yourself I can get there faster. You start to speed. At what point are you under the law? Can you get a ticket for going to the posted speed limit (conditions permitting) No, you are not under the law. Once you have transgressed the speed limit you become under the law. So let's look at it in this viewpoint. Say we now take away all the "Posted" speed limit signs. The law is still there but now you have no way to know if it is 25mph or 55mph. The instructions have been removed but the penalty remains the same. You would have no way to know if you are under the law. By removing the from the church we have the blind leading the blind. The blind are still under the law when they transgress and at the end of the day they will be judged for it. One cannot repent for something they do not see as being sin. Without repentance one cannot ask for forgiveness from the only one who can grant it in the spiritual and physical sense. This does not mean we will not be punished since everything we do has consequences. I will post some teachings on this subject and trust me I do understand what you are going through. It is not easy nor is it a pleasant time but it can build a strength and connection with Hashem that might not have been there if not for this sifting process. I have enclosed many teachings but I feel they all will help someone on the fence with making the right decisions. Sometimes we feel like we are on an island but the truth is that is not always a bad thing. I also understand what you are saying about there being so many Messianic viewpoints it gets hard to understand who is right. Be cautious and check everything against the Word of Hashem. I know this can be tough but it will help keep us grounded in truth. The one thing I always find interesting is how many people come to realize matters and within two months they have their own ministry and are already telling everyone else where they are wrong. They come up with new calenders that are only known by there group, and are usually a watered down version of . We must always be cautious from such teachers. I pray you find the encouragement you need and stay in the Word of Hashem. Are we required to keep ? www.torahresource.com/EnglishArticles/UnityOfTorah.pdfWhat does "Under the Law" mean? www.synagoguechm.com/articles/whatdoesunderlawmean.pdfIs the for the "Unrighteous"? www.torahresource.com/EnglishArticles/Paul&Torah1Tim1.pdfIs the just for the Jews? www.synagoguechm.com/articles/torahforjewsonly.pdf |
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Post by Yedidyah on Dec 26, 2013 12:03:53 GMT -8
My struggles with Messianic Judaism, or should I state my struggles with following the or God's laws. There are verses that I do see that is true when it comes to the . I also believe that Yeshua did not do away or destroy the . He simply completed them or finished them. But what does this mean exactly? Also there is a verse that states that the law will not pass away until the new earth is come. What does this exactly mean? This explains allot on the verse you are asking about. www.synagoguechm.com/articles/ismessiahtheterminationofthelaw.pdf |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 12:11:34 GMT -8
Thank you Yedidyah for the encouragement and the information. I will check them out. Blessings to you.
Moriah Ruth
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Post by alon on Dec 26, 2013 16:57:46 GMT -8
It is not that I don't desire to follow God's law, I do. My struggle is with my husband and others who state that if I follow God's law than I am coming under the law, or I am putting myself in bondage to the law or that I am becoming legalistic. It is difficult when your spouse and all your friends make accusations based in their ignorance. Yedidyah gave a good example of why the law is important, as well as when we do come under the law. Sadly, it is they who are under the Law by refusing to accept it. What makes it doubly tough is you are accused and condemned of a "crime" by the very ones who are committing the crime. Yes, I've been called "Judaizer" and told the same things. But how do we "slap God" or attack God by trying to follow the whole of His Word? "I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me." Mat 25:45. If they leave you no peace to study the Word and follow your convictions, it is they who attack God. Your salvation is lost by not doing what God says, not by following His truth as put in His Law. In all your posts you seem to be hung up on this one point. I think the problem may be that you have not got past the dispensational view of grace. This says that all that was before is no longer applicable, and we are under a new dispensation of "grace." The implication which we've all been trained under is that grace did not exist prior to the resurrection of Yeshua. This is a lie. Grace has always been in effect, from Adam to Ruth, Dan, Yedidyah, Rabbi Reuel, et all. We all feel that way at times. Hang in there with your studies and observance. You may need to do so quietly, and it won't be easy. But you'll get nothing but grief from mainstream types, so until you're ready to take them on I'd say just don't talk with them about it. Can't tell you what to do about your church. You may need to go with your husband, but certainly I'd take anything they tell you with a LOT of salt! He was the fulfillment, the One the TNK prophesied of. Those prophesies are still valid, as they prove who He is. It means exactly what it says. Until this present earth passes away and a new heavens and earth are created, the Law is still in effect! Not in this lifetime. Sorry ...  Start with . That is the basis for everything else. That is Gods Law for yesterday, today and tomorrow. Again, I can empathize. The net is a dung heap, and crazies and lunatics seem drawn to anything like this- the work of the enemy. Just take it as a sign that there is something he doesn't want to take hold here. This site is solid, and a good place to come for answers, even though it isn't very active. The active sites are active because they allow anyone to post whatever they "feel" like. Pray for discernment in abundance when you have to go to the net for answers. And you can bounce questions here- we're mostly still learning ourselves. But at least I think you'll get a more honest answer here than anywhere else I've seen- and I seen a lot of 'em! 1Thes 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." Dan C |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 17:23:02 GMT -8
Yedidyah,
Most of the teachings that you gave me is from Tim Hegg. I enjoy reading his thoughts and truths. Thank you for sharing. I also saved the teachings to my e-Reader so that I can read them when I get a chance. I am hoping for next week as I am not working at the school. The school is on holidays.
Also I agree with what you shared and I am pondering them.
Moriah Ruth
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 17:35:17 GMT -8
Dan (Alon),
Thank you for your godly encouragement. It is much needed and I agree with what you stated. However I had to chuckle on a few areas. Nothing bad, just things for me to think through and that I can so much relate to.
Yes, I agree I am too much on my frustration of this grace. More so because I don't fully understand it for many reasons. However I do agree and believe that God does show His grace. Not in our way of thinking but in His way and for His purpose.
Most of what I share is just getting past all the confusion and frustration and the many questions. Once I get past this than, well, you will probably see one joyful crazy person jumping around.
I know that I will get past this. I also know that I need to deal with some things in my life and really look at my heart at the moment.
I am not giving up. You know when I look at all that I have gone through and the enemy putting up stumbling blocks there is something good around the corner. Some of the many things I brought upon myself and don't blame anyone but me. I can blame my parents for where I am now, or I could blame my husband or whoever, but they are not the cause of my many sins. I am. And for this I know that I need to go before my Holy God before I go further.
The time of decision has come. I must make my choice. For the time is short and I certainly do not want to be left out of God's heavenly home. But enough of that. My heart cries not only for myself but for many who are being deceived and many who claim they follow after God and do not. Most times I get angry with what I hear and how they disrespect a Holy God. Sorry, that just came out.
I will go on this journey that God has set for me.
Moriah Ruth
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Post by Questor on Dec 27, 2013 12:59:42 GMT -8
Dan (Alon), Thank you for your godly encouragement. It is much needed and I agree with what you stated. However I had to chuckle on a few areas. Nothing bad, just things for me to think through and that I can so much relate to. Yes, I agree I am too much on my frustration of this grace. More so because I don't fully understand it for many reasons. However I do agree and believe that God does show His grace. Not in our way of thinking but in His way and for His purpose. Most of what I share is just getting past all the confusion and frustration and the many questions. Once I get past this than, well, you will probably see one joyful crazy person jumping around. I know that I will get past this. I also know that I need to deal with some things in my life and really look at my heart at the moment. I am not giving up. You know when I look at all that I have gone through and the enemy putting up stumbling blocks there is something good around the corner. Some of the many things I brought upon myself and don't blame anyone but me. I can blame my parents for where I am now, or I could blame my husband or whoever, but they are not the cause of my many sins. I am. And for this I know that I need to go before my Holy God before I go further. The time of decision has come. I must make my choice. For the time is short and I certainly do not want to be left out of God's heavenly home. But enough of that. My heart cries not only for myself but for many who are being deceived and many who claim they follow after God and do not. Most times I get angry with what I hear and how they disrespect a Holy God. Sorry, that just came out. I will go on this journey that God has set for me. Moriah Ruth For me, the difficulty is keeping my mouth shut when someone says something obviously wrong, at least to me, and they do not notice the effect of their words. I practice silence more and more, because it is not always wise to speak. Focusing on what you do, and think, and not explaining it to those you know will disagree will help. If, however, someone is blatantly doing something harmful to others, or themselves, you must speak out very gently. It always helps me to speak in terms that will be well received. Using the word or Law does not mesh well with my Christian friends, so I talk about them disappointing Yeshua, or hurting Yeshua by their conduct. A lot of our difficulties as Messianics come from having a different language. We may be saying something to Christians that sounds Hebraic, when they need to hear what we say in Christianese to be able to apply it properly, and not think that a legalism is involved. Obedience to the Scriptures is not the point in explaining matters...doing what G-d wants is, and can be expressed so without disturbing people on how we phrase the problem to ourselves. As always, communication is difficult. I always remember Yeshua saying, "Be as wise as serpents, and meek as doves." I pray that all this transition to obedience in your heart and actions does not put you at odds with those that are not ready to hear the full explanation. I can hear the loneliness of your position...it is difficult to have no one to commiserate with over the difficulties of your deepening walk...just remember that it is a deepening of your walk with Yeshua, not an abandonment of your church relationships. Walk it out, and don't explain when you don't have to. As for closer relationships, arguing about anything is unwise when it can produce no result, and very rarely do our words change people. We can request something, but even that can be a match to set ablaze a waiting pile of wood. Instead, praying for the person involved to be given understanding is far more effective, and to ask YHVH for favor with your husband is always an option. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2013 19:00:22 GMT -8
Questor,
You have spoken well. And this is what I am doing is learning in silence. And yes for me being an outspoken, direct and blunt person I tend to say things at the wrong time. Or should I say put foot in mouth.
But God has taught me and is still teaching me to keep silent when needed. And believe me it is not easy for me. There are times I say to God, "but Lord that person was mean to me, how dare they!" And He will say be silent or He will deal with the person.
Yet I find that if I share anything with my husband or anyone about what I am learning, they will disagree and of course I get discouraged, frustrated and just plain stop.
I see now that God has me to learn in silence for the moment and He will have me speak when needed and keep silent when needed.
What I am doing thus far is reading things like on here and downloading to my eReader any links that are provided. Also reading the bible with a different mind set.
Right now my thoughts are many. However I will rest for the moment
Moriah Ruth
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or God's laws. 
