Ex 20 & Deu 5 vs. Ex 34, The 10 Commandments

[alon]

The Ten Commandments

Ex 20 is where we are taught the 10 Commandments are found.

1 Then God spoke all these words, saying, 2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 "You shall have no other gods before Me. 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. 7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain. 8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God ; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day ; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. 12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you. 13 "You shall not murder. 14 "You shall not commit adultery. 15 "You shall not steal. 16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house ; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor." ... 23 'You shall not make other gods besides Me; gods of silver or gods of gold, you shall not make for yourselves. 24 'You shall make an altar of earth for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen ; in every place where I cause My name to be remembered, I will come to you and bless you. 25 'If you make an altar of stone for Me, you shall not build it of cut stones, for if you wield your tool on it, you will profane it. 26 'And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.'

There are more than 10 commandments listed here. And Ex 21 immediately continues with more instructions. So how is it we get just 10 commandments from this account?

Deu 5:6-21 repeats the first 10, then adds in vs. 29 'Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always , that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!

So it could be that we might name these the “Ten Commandments” based on Deuteronomy's listing of only ten. We are also taught that these are what were written on the stone tablets Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai.

However, the only place the Bible uses the phrase “the Ten Commandments” is in Ex 34. And it is not the same list as the above.

First off, look at Ex 34:1 Now the LORD said to Moses, "Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered.”

So the second set of tablets were to contain the same things as the first. What was on these tablets?

Ex 34:12 "Watch yourself that you make no covenant with the inhabitants of the land into which you are going, or it will become a snare in your midst. 13 "But rather, you are to tear down their altars and smash their sacred pillars and cut down their Asherim 14 -for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God - 15 otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice, 16 and you might take some of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters might play the harlot with their gods and cause your sons also to play the harlot with their gods. 17 "You shall make for yourself no molten gods. 18 "You shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in the month of Abib you came out of Egypt. 19 "The first offspring from every womb belongs to Me, and all your male livestock, the first offspring from cattle and sheep. 20 "You shall redeem with a lamb the first offspring from a donkey ; and if you do not redeem it, then you shall break its neck. You shall redeem all the firstborn of your sons. None shall appear before Me empty-handed. 21 "You shall work six days, but on the seventh day you shall rest ; even during plowing time and harvest you shall rest. 22 "You shall celebrate the Feast of Weeks, that is, the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 "Three times a year all your males are to appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel. 24 "For I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your borders, and no man shall covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the LORD your God. 25 "You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread, nor is the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover to be left over until morning. 26 "You shall bring the very first of the first fruits of your soil into the house of the LORD your God. "Y ou shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk." 27 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." 28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights ; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

It appears that God placed a different set of instructions on the tablets, and it is these He called "the Ten Commandments."

What do you think, and why?

Dan C

[alon]

By the way, I set it up so we can change our votes if persuaded differently during the discussion ...

Dan C

[Miykhael]

Shalom and Blessings in Our Messiah Yeshua. In the Hebrew, the Ten Commandments are called עשרת הדברים (transliterated Asereth ha-D'bharîm) could be translated as Ten words, Ten says or Ten maters.

Miykhael

[alon]

Nov 23, 2013 21:01:53 GMT -8 Miykhael said:

Shalom and Blessings in Our Messiah Yeshua. In the Hebrew, the Ten Commandments are called עשרת הדברים (transliterated Asereth ha-D'bharîm) could be translated as Ten words, Ten says or Ten maters.

Miykhael

Yes, I looked it up in my Strong's when I researched it. Esher is an accumulation, to the extent of, ten.

There are many ways to translate d'varim (d'bharim), all correct; and one major meaning is instructions or commandments. However the fact is "the Ten D'varim" is only used once- in Ex 34:28. So how do we line this up with our image of Moses coming down the mountain with a different list?

Ed Cole says the most powerful thing you can do is to create an image. Is this another image given to us by the Catholic fathers in order to de-Judaize their new religion? We've all seen the paintings and stained glass illustrations, or the features set in stone on public buildings. Moses carrying the tablets down the mountain in outstretched arms (talk about a supernatural accomplishment) so we could read the words written there. Quite a striking image.

But the only moed on the popular list is Shabbat, and look what they did with that one! If we are commanded to keep the moedim, as in the list in Ex 34, then we couldn't exchange Shabbat for the Lord's day; couldn't celebrate Eshtar, or her son's birthday ("X"mas) instead of the Spring and Fall feasts; and of course All Hallows E'en would be off the calendar of celebrations. That one is obviously pagan- kind of like the practice of boiling a kid in it's mother's milk.

But then again, I am always able to miss something (it's a gift ), so I thought I'd put this up and see. I started looking at this after the Rabbi said something about it, and what I am seeing there is an eye opener!

Dan C

[alon]

Here they are in simplified format. Both are biblical, and therefore both binding. So this is not a "one or the other" choice in that respect. It is more an "is this something we need to be aware of;" another place where latent anti-Semitism resides in our pagan past. Here's the lists-

The Ten Commandments (popular):

• 1. I am ADONAI your God, … You are to have no other gods before me
  
  
• 2. You are not to make for yourselves a carved image or any kind of representation of anything in heaven above, on the earth beneath or in the water below the shoreline - you are not to bow down to them or serve them
  
  
• 3. You are not to misuse the name of ADONAI your God
  
  
• 4. Observe the day of Shabbat, to set it apart as holy
  
  
• 5. Honor your father and mother
  
  
• 6. Do not murder
  
  
• 7. Do not commit adultery
  
  
• 8. Do not steal
  
  
• 9. Do not give false evidence against your neighbor
  
  
• 10. Do not covet your neighbor's wife; do not covet your neighbor's house, his field, his male or female slave, his ox, his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor
  
  

The Ten Commandments (Ex 34):

• 1. Be careful not to make a covenant with the people living in the land where you are going, ... Rather, you are to demolish their altars, smash their standing-stones and cut down their sacred poles
  
  
• 2. Do not cast metal gods for yourselves
  
  
• 3. Keep the festival of matzah … for seven days during the month of Aviv
  
  
• 4. Everything that is first from the womb is mine.
  
  
• 5. Six days you will work, but on the seventh day you are to rest
  
  
• 6. Observe the festival of Shavu'ot with the first-gathered produce of the wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year.
  
  
• 7. Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Lord, ADONAI, the God of Isra'el.
  
  
• 8. You are not to offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread, and the sacrifice of the feast of Pesach is not to be left until morning
  
  
• 9. You are to bring the best firstfruits of your land into the house of ADONAI your God
  
  
• 10. You are not to boil a kid in its mother’s milk
  

I am thinking of changing my vote to "other," as it doesn't really matter as long as we are aware of the discrepancy and that all Scripture is binding.

Shabbat shalom, v' Chanukkah sameach!

Dan C

edit: changed vote to "other," for the above reason.

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2013 21:43:30 GMT -8 alon said:

Nov 23, 2013 21:01:53 GMT -8 Miykhael said:

Shalom and Blessings in Our Messiah Yeshua. In the Hebrew, the Ten Commandments are called עשרת הדברים (transliterated Asereth ha-D'bharîm) could be translated as Ten words, Ten says or Ten maters.

Miykhael

Yes, I looked it up in my Strong's when I researched it. Esher is an accumulation, to the extent of, ten.

There are many ways to translate d'varim (d'bharim), all correct; and one major meaning is instructions or commandments. However the fact is "the Ten D'varim" is only used once- in Ex 34:28. So how do we line this up with our image of Moses coming down the mountain with a different list?

Ed Cole says the most powerful thing you can do is to create an image. Is this another image given to us by the Catholic fathers in order to de-Judaize their new religion? We've all seen the paintings and stained glass illustrations, or the features set in stone on public buildings. Moses carrying the tablets down the mountain in outstretched arms (talk about a supernatural accomplishment) so we could read the words written there. Quite a striking image.

But the only moed on the popular list is Shabbat, and look what they did with that one! If we are commanded to keep the moedim, as in the list in Ex 34, then we couldn't exchange Shabbat for the Lord's day; couldn't celebrate Eshtar, or her son's birthday ("X"mas) instead of the Spring and Fall feasts; and of course All Hallows E'en would be off the calendar of celebrations. That one is obviously pagan- kind of like the practice of boiling a kid in it's mother's milk.

But then again, I am always able to miss something (it's a gift ), so I thought I'd put this up and see. I started looking at this after the Rabbi said something about it, and what I am seeing there is an eye opener!

Dan C

Just back to being on-line again - couldn't help smiling at this post. The reference to the RCC de-Judaising their religion vs your search for the truth using Stones - he was an honoured Roman Catholic theologian!

[alon]

Nov 29, 2013 23:56:33 GMT -8 @heber said:

Just back to being on-line again - couldn't help smiling at this post. The reference to the RCC de-Judaising their religion vs your search for the truth using Stones - he was an honoured Roman Catholic theologian!

LOL, ironic, to be sure! Glad to see you back.

Never said the Catholics were ALL wrong. And What Strong did was genius with his concordance. His is the only reference I have that is word-keyed to my Bible. In fact, to use it I must first look the passage up in my KJV (I typically use NAS), then look it up in my Strong's. It's old; cover and binding falling apart, pages yellowed and turning to dust. But it still works. I like to actually turn pages -- old school!

Dan C

edit: just to be clear, Strong headed a team at (I believe) a Methodist university where the concordance that bears his name was created.

[alon]

OK, it's been a while now ... I have to ask- would I have gotten any replies or votes if I had included a category that said "alon, you schmuck, you're just plain crazy!"?

Dan ;D C

[Yedidyah]

I would never call you anything like that

I was just watching the post and liked how you answered your own question. I did figure it would have gotten some more response though.

Shalom!
Yedidyah

[Frank T. Clark]

I have been pondering this poll and I finally made my vote. There are not "Ten Commandments". I am often a little contrarian. :-) Reasoning: Whatever the "Ten Words" are, God's commandments, His Law of Love to guide us, is much more than just the primary ten points.

[alon]

Dec 17, 2013 11:40:44 GMT -8 Frank T. Clark said:

I have been pondering this poll and I finally made my vote. There are not "Ten Commandments". I am often a little contrarian. :-) Reasoning: Whatever the "Ten Words" are, God's commandments, His Law of Love to guide us, is much more than just the primary ten points.

YESSS!!!!! Thank you; and good to see you back here Frank!

That is exactly what I was thinking about when I put that category up there. We have a whole full of Commandments/mitzvoth. This is another area where I think we were deceived, and it is evident in mainC today to an alarming extent. Whenever I speak about commandments to them, sooner rather than later they default to the popular list of ten like those are the only things God said that He meant! It's like a mantra to which they default when they want to dispose of those pesky things they don't feel are applicable in their current "dispensation of grace." And apparently He didn't really mean those because almost every church today is full of imagery, has at least one tree (it is "X"mas, after all), and worships on Sunday. I guess that if you can ignore the bulk of God's commandments, it then becomes easier to violate the few you say are inviolate.

Contrary or not, I think you have a valid point. Oh, and thanks for the vote. I was feeling kind of lonesome up there by myself ...

Dan C

[alon]

Reviving this thread, since Ex 20 is part of the par'sha this week.

According to the notes in my JPS TNK, due to the narrative sequence and the fact God spoke in the first person in the first two commandments, and He is referred to in the second person thereafter, the people may have heard at least part of this dialog. At some point the people asked Moses to simply relay the message and words of Elohim (ch. 20 vss. 16 7 17). So if they heard part of the message, and Moses told them the rest- and of course it was duly written down- why then would it have had to be written on stone tablets? In telling them first, the message in stone had kind of "lost its thunder" (pardon the pun). The emphasis would be on the spoken word, not the supernatural stone tablets.

Dan C

[Miykhael]

B"H
I have already explained that they are called ten words or ten statements, however they are to be found in the ark along with Aharon budded rod and the man. I thought this might be helpful from Rabbi Chaim Richman m.youtube.com/watch?v=TSgg5OO3qiw from the Temple institute and Rabbi Sacks www.rabbisacks.org/structure-good-society-yitro-5775/

[Miykhael]

B”H
We thought this maybe helpful.

Exactly what are the "Ten Words" (or what some people call the "Ten Commandments")?

Everyone seems to know about a portion of Scripture they call the "Ten Commandments." They were written on tablets of stone; and they supposedly represent the baseline of morality for two religions: Judaism and Christianity. But what exactly are they?

First, they are never called the "Ten Commandments" in Scripture. It is quite odd that they ever earned this name. They are listed in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. They are called the "the Ten Words" in Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; and Deuteronomy 10:4. It is from these three passages that they earned their title. In Hebrew, they are called "aseret ha-devarim" [the ten words]. In the Greek Septuagint they are "deca logos" [ten words]. In the Latin Vulgate, they are "verba decem" [ten words]. So how did they earn the English name, "the Ten Commandments"?

The Wycliffe Bible, one of the earliest English Bibles (1395 CE) translated "aseret ha-devarim" as "ten words." The Coverdale Bible (1535 CE) translates the phrase as "ten verses." Virtually every English Bible from that time on has translated the phrase as "Ten Commandments." So what happened between the Wycliffe translation and the Bishop's Bible in 1568? The Protestant Reformation. The Geneva and Bishop's well-established the phrase "the Ten Commandments"; but the Authorized Version [King James Bible] of 1611, theologically sealed the matter. They were to be called "the Ten Commandments" from then on.

So, does it really matter? Certainly, the ten words of Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 are imperatives, aren't they? Traditional Judaism lists them as part of the "613 mitzvot" [commandments]. So, what difference does it make if they are incorrectly translated into English?

Beloved, there is a reason they went from being "words" to "commandments" and it isn't out of reverence for mitzvot - it is the opposite. The word "devarim" [words] carries with it the promise of liberty and life - after all, we are to live by "every word that proceeds from the mouth of HaShem." (Deuteronomy 8:3; Matthew 4:4) To some, the word "commandments" bears the appropriate negative connotation. There is a theological reason "words" became "commandments."

To be fair, some of the men of the Protestant Reformation considered these words as valid and operable in the lives of believers. Sadly, those same men were those that promoted a heretical theology called "Supercessionism" or "Replacement Theology." The real force behind the denigrating of the Ten Words is to be found in Dispensationalism. It is there that the Ten Words became a relic of a past "dispensation" - the "dispensation of law" which in the dispensationalist's mind is the antithesis to the "dispensation of grace."

It was not the name "Ten Commandments" that reduced these words of life to "the Law carved on stone" in Christianity - it was the theology, whether Supercessionist as with Roman Catholicism, Lutheranism, and Presbyterianism; or Dispensationalism as with Baptist, Pentecostalism, or Evangelicalism (and sadly, some forms of Messianic Judaism). The theology aims to do the same thing in this regard: relegate the Ten Words to cold hard tablets of stone.

That is not what they are. They were delivered by the mouth of the Almighty King of the universe to the ears of an entire nation at once. They came with sounds and sights that have never been experienced since. They were spoken audibly by the mouth of the Master of all worlds. We could see those words, as if sparks. HaShem Himself carved them onto tablets (twice). Our tradition tells us that those tablets were miraculously carved in a way to be visible on both sides, with the words suspended as if on air.

Beloved, they are words of life. They are Ten Words. They are the summary of HaShem's self-revelation. Think about that for a moment. Everything that He said, is found within these Ten Words. And the first of them is...

I am the HaShem your G-d, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exodus 20:2

This is His formal introduction to His bride. Never forget that.
www.bereansonline.org

[alon]

Feb 13, 2015 8:10:10 GMT -8 Miykhael said:

First, they are never called the "Ten Commandments" in Scripture. It is quite odd that they ever earned this name. They are listed in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. They are called the "the Ten Words" in Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; and Deuteronomy 10:4. It is from these three passages that they earned their title. In Hebrew, they are called "aseret ha-devarim" [the ten words]. In the Greek Septuagint they are "deca logos" [ten words]. In the Latin Vulgate, they are "verba decem" [ten words]. So how did they earn the English name, "the Ten Commandments"?

Good information in the article. Thanks! However they do make the apparent error of assuming Ex 34:28 refers to the same instructions as given in Ex 20. The way I read it, these are two very different sets of instructions, and what was on the tablets both times was what is in Ex 34. Now, since both sets of instructions are given by YHVH directly to Moshe, and so both are valid and to be obeyed, what difference does it make? Even Judaism calls the list in Ex 20 The Ten Words.

The difference is that the list in Ex 34 tells us to keep the feasts. It is a very "Jewish" list, and so could not be acknowledged by the Christian church. If Ex 34 were to be said to be the Ten Commandments, Christmas and Easter are out! "We just couldn't have that!" Christianity would then have to actually have Jewish roots! Couldn't have that either.

Why Judaism went along with the Ex 20 list while adamantly doing the exact opposite of Christianity in all else after the 1st cen CE is a mystery to me. Maybe I am missing something, which is why I put this up. The question is, which list is the true "Ten Commandments?"

This came up in synagogue a while back, and I'm pretty sure we are with the Ex 34 list. But I'm looking for more input, as generally when talking with Christians about the only thing they'll acknowledge as binding as "law" in the "Old Testament" is "The Ten Commandments." So it is important, at least to me.

Dan C