The DOctrine of "Original Sin"

[alon]

Is the Doctrine of Original Sin (DoOS) wrong?

1st off, the 'original sin' occurred in heaven when ha satan rebelled. Then there was the war in the heavens, where we can safely assume there was a whole lot of sinnin' goin' on. So the sin in the garden was far from "original."

But more than that, and even if meant in the context of mankind's 'original sin,' it is un-biblical. According to my search, the words "original sin" do not occur in the Bible anywhere. And what this doctrine teaches is just wrong. It says that since Adam and Eve sinned, we are born with a sin nature. We just cannot help sinning. It places the blame for our sins on Adam and Eve.

Since we don't have a choice, God will surely wink at our sins.

Acts 17:30 "In the past, God overlooked such ignorance; but now he is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins.

This passage is often used congruent with the DoOS to say God does "wink at sin." I gotta cry "Bull!" on that one. God winked at their ignorance, not their sin. Furthermore, in the case of much of our sins:

Romans 2:15 For their lives show that the conduct the dictates is written in their hearts. Their consciences also bear witness to this, for their conflicting thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them

So even the ignorant cannot sin with impunity.

Sinning is a choice, and we are responsible for our own sins. While it is true we do have a sin nature, we can help sinning. This is not really great news for me ... fortunately there is the "good news" of the Renewed Covenant, as well as the example of God forgiving Israel many times over when she repented. Otherwise, I'm just in too deep to crawl out.

Galatians 1:6 I am astounded that you are so quick to remove yourselves from me, the one who called you by the Messiah's grace, and turn to some other supposedly "Good News," 7 which is not good news at all! What is really happening is that certain people are pestering you and trying to pervert the genuine Good News of the Messiah. 8 But even if we-or, for that matter, an angel from heaven!-were to announce to you some so-called "Good News" contrary to the Good News we did announce to you, let him be under a curse forever! 9 We said it before, and I say it again: if anyone announces "Good News" contrary to what you received, let him be under a curse forever! 10 Now does that sound as if I were trying to win human approval? No! I want God's approval! Or that I'm trying to cater to people? If I were still doing that, I would not be a servant of the Messiah.

It didn't take long for such heretical doctrines as this to creep in, and for men to set up their excuses to be used before God. What fools! And what bothers me is I've been as guilty as the next fool of such excuses. Thankfully God in His mercy gave me a wake-up call I couldn't ignore. "Original Sin?" I can't even remember mine ... but I'm fairly certain I wasn't in Eden when it occurred.

Dan (repentant sinner, and generally not favored by many men) C

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2013 18:44:34 GMT -8 alon said:

Is the Doctrine of Original Sin (DoOS) wrong?

1st off, the 'original sin' occurred in heaven when ha satan rebelled. Then there was the war in the heavens, where we can safely assume there was a whole lot of sinnin' goin' on. So the sin in the garden was far from "original."

But more than that, and even if meant in the context of mankind's 'original sin,' it is un-biblical. According to my search, the words "original sin" do not occur in the Bible anywhere. And what this doctrine teaches is just wrong. It says that since Adam and Eve sinned, we are born with a sin nature. We just cannot help sinning. It places the blame for our sins on Adam and Eve.

Since we don't have a choice, God will surely wink at our sins.

Acts 17:30 "In the past, God overlooked such ignorance; but now he is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins.

This passage is often used congruent with the DoOS to say God does "wink at sin." I gotta cry "Bull!" on that one. God winked at their ignorance, not their sin. Furthermore, in the case of much of our sins:

Romans 2:15 For their lives show that the conduct the dictates is written in their hearts. Their consciences also bear witness to this, for their conflicting thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them

So even the ignorant cannot sin with impunity.

Sinning is a choice, and we are responsible for our own sins. While it is true we do have a sin nature, we can help sinning. This is not really great news for me ... fortunately there is the "good news" of the Renewed Covenant, as well as the example of God forgiving Israel many times over when she repented. Otherwise, I'm just in too deep to crawl out.

Galatians 1:6 I am astounded that you are so quick to remove yourselves from me, the one who called you by the Messiah's grace, and turn to some other supposedly "Good News," 7 which is not good news at all! What is really happening is that certain people are pestering you and trying to pervert the genuine Good News of the Messiah. 8 But even if we-or, for that matter, an angel from heaven!-were to announce to you some so-called "Good News" contrary to the Good News we did announce to you, let him be under a curse forever! 9 We said it before, and I say it again: if anyone announces "Good News" contrary to what you received, let him be under a curse forever! 10 Now does that sound as if I were trying to win human approval? No! I want God's approval! Or that I'm trying to cater to people? If I were still doing that, I would not be a servant of the Messiah.

It didn't take long for such heretical doctrines as this to creep in, and for men to set up their excuses to be used before God. What fools! And what bothers me is I've been as guilty as the next fool of such excuses. Thankfully God in His mercy gave me a wake-up call I couldn't ignore. "Original Sin?" I can't even remember mine ... but I'm fairly certain I wasn't in Eden when it occurred.

Dan (repentant sinner, and generally not favored by many men) C

In answer to your OP question: yes, it is wrong and un-Biblical.

What we inherited over time was the propensity to choose to sin - original sin is a cop-out invented by man to blame anyone but himself for his disobedience. Many say that if it is not G_d at fault (original sin) it was hasatan: "the devil made me do it"; blame anyone but man himself!

Certain people say that Jesus' mum was without sin - if that was the case then all her genealogical line, and all the branches off that line, without exception, must also have been without sin. That view, of itself, belies the concept of original sin which, strangely enough, is a view upheld by those who hold that she was sinless!

[jimmie]

Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.


If Levi paid tithes while in Abraham’s loins, is it so difficult to believe that we sinned while in Adam’s loins?

Ex 37 ... visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

I Kings 15:3 And he walked in all the sins of his father, which he had done before him: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father.

Neh 9:2 And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all strangers, and stood and confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers.

Jer. 14:20 We acknowledge, O LORD, our wickedness, and the iniquity of our fathers: for we have sinned against thee.

Original sin must be acknowledge and forsaken. Not used as an excuse to walk in it.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2013 6:05:03 GMT -8 jimmie said:

Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.


If Levi paid tithes while in Abraham’s loins, is it so difficult to believe that we sinned while in Adam’s loins?

Ex 37 ... visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

I Kings 15:3 And he walked in all the sins of his father, which he had done before him: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father.

Neh 9:2 And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all strangers, and stood and confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers.

Jer. 14:20 We acknowledge, O LORD, our wickedness, and the iniquity of our fathers: for we have sinned against thee.

Original sin must be acknowledge and forsaken. Not used as an excuse to walk in it.

Ezekiel 18 might be worth reading!

[jimmie]

Yes Ezekiel 18 tells us that we must consider our father’s sins and not do like wise.

Ez 18:14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

Ez 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2013 11:30:43 GMT -8 jimmie said:

Yes Ezekiel 18 tells us that we must consider our father’s sins and not do like wise.

Ez 18:14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

Ez 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

More importantly it shows us at the outset that we are NOT punished for the sins of our ancestors, as hinted at in the post to which I responded. It is the effect of the sins of our fathers that we suffer from, not the guilt. In a nut-shell, those effects are both literal - as in how we treat the world, for example, and moral - as in how we learn from them to choose to sin and how to try and avoid any direct guilt for our sins.

[alon]

Oct 25, 2013 23:37:40 GMT -8 @heber said:

Oct 25, 2013 11:30:43 GMT -8 jimmie said:

Yes Ezekiel 18 tells us that we must consider our father’s sins and not do like wise.

Ez 18:14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

Ez 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

More importantly it shows us at the outset that we are NOT punished for the sins of our ancestors, as hinted at in the post to which I responded. It is the effect of the sins of our fathers that we suffer from, not the guilt. In a nut-shell, those effects are both literal - as in how we treat the world, for example, and moral - as in how we learn from them to choose to sin and how to try and avoid any direct guilt for our sins.

I agree. What is passed on is attitudes, learned methods of dealing with others, and too often hurts which go unforgiven (by us) and thus owned and perpetuated by us. A good example is an abuser who was himself abused, and who carried that anger and thus abused his own family. One of the many gifts of the enemy which keeps on giving, generation after generation. The origin of this trans-generational sin was someone who could or would not control his own anger and who took it out on those under his "control." But every generation has the option of either perpetuating this sin or of godly forgiveness and breaking the cycle of this particular sin. And every generation will be held accountable for his own sin in this instance.

Dan C