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Post by yiska on May 1, 2013 18:30:51 GMT -8
Okay I have been having some discussion about when the bible was first written and I looked into the net, of course, and found that it was first written during Moses time.  Does anyone have any more information as to when exactly it was first written so I can rub it is my friend's face  He says the bible was probably written 25,000 years ago?   Some people rather than look it up like I did and then they tell me when I ask them where they get their information from, they say. A friend.  I truly worried about some of my "friends".  |
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Post by messianicmama on May 1, 2013 20:54:28 GMT -8
The  was canonized approximately 400 BC, the Prophets 200 BC ads the Writings 100 BC. The was written first, by Moses who lived sometime between the 1600s and the 1200s depending on the source. The Apostolic Writings were written shortly after the death of Yeshua, so in the 1St century AD. |
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Post by alon on May 1, 2013 23:01:14 GMT -8
The was given to Moses about 1300 BCE. There is evidence, however, that much of it was compiled from earlier writings. Traditionally, the Hebrews believed he was given the entire as well as the Oral Tradition on Mt. Sinai. Personally, I have my doubts about that. However the was written in Moses time and probably under his direct supervision and at the unction of the Ruach HaChodesh. My opinion, based on reading a (very) little bit of that pesky Talmud, my Study TNK, my study Bible, and other. The rest is probably as mamma said. But 25000 yrs ago? Is that a typo? Dan C |
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Post by malachib on May 2, 2013 7:08:14 GMT -8
There is also the notion that there are a total of 4 authors of what we call the , and that it didn't come into its current form until the time of.King David. The idea that Moses wrote Genesis is also debated. But really...which Bible? The Tenach cannonized about the time messianicmamma states, but it was Yavneh that the sages put their official seal on it. Some communities considered other writtings Scripture (Ben Sirah, and other apocrapha) while others didn't. Even from Christian sources, the Church of the East (Syrian Or th hodox) didn't consider Revelations Scripture until after 600AD/CE. You also have different languages. What is the oldest copy of the Hebrew Tenach? And is it accurate? Does oldest always mean more accurate? What about the Targumim (Aramaic paraphrasing of the Tenach)? The Peshitta (Aramaic NT)? The LXX (Greek Tenach)? Texus Receptus? Latin Vulgate? What of the Samaritan ? Each Bible is an interpretation if its been translated into English is another consideration. So the question truly is loaded. For example, is the Protestant Christian Bible you used truly "The Bible...The Word of G-d"? Some would consider it incomplete, others that you've added to it. The debate continues on today. As far as 25,000 years ago? The oldest form of writting that has been discovered is ancient Sumerian...roughly 5,000 years old (dates back to 3,000 BCE). So the chances of 25,000 years couldn't work. |
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Post by Frank T. Clark on May 2, 2013 7:47:45 GMT -8
I sense the potential that some doubt is being cast on the validity of the Bible (in any form) as the Word of God.
When I am confronted by this, I remind people who believe in God of certain facts.
Those who don't believe in God are a very different story.
When you believe in God, His Omnipotence, and His Omniscience, it is clear that He has the ability to communicate Himself to us and preserve His Word sufficient to guide us. Is any particular manuscript, translation, ... perfect? No, but it is more than sufficient to guide us. Otherwise, you are doubting the power of God.
In particular, the guidance of the Omnipresent Holy Spirit teaches each of us directly. Our Saviour has promised and His Word cannot be doubted by those who believe.
When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth... He will show you things to come.
John 16:13 (FTCABE)
I find that verse very comforting... "ALL TRUTH". What a comforting concept when confronted by all the disagreement, confusion, and dispute. We don't need to worry. He has promised.
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Post by yiska on May 2, 2013 10:15:50 GMT -8
Thank you everyone for participating which I find it comforting knowing this. Yes, my friend's friend actually thinks the bible was written 25,000. And no Alon I didn't typo. Sounds silly doesn't it?  I found some information that pretty much sums up with everyone here had posted previously before me and I thank you for sharing your insights. What lead to this conversation was we were talking about Mermaids, then it lead to Dinosaurs and then Adam & Eve to The Holy Bible. I debated and of course the conversation was pointless at the time because I felt he was leaning people astray from making them think he knows more about the bible than others. He has a pretty big ego but leaning others to his own thinking is dangerous. I told him this and of course he thinks he knows more... I am afraid for his friends that thinks he thinking is right. I hope that they will open their own eyes and study for themselves instead of leaning toward his thinking. Frank... You make a very good point. Those who believe in G-d and believe in his words are the ones that know the TRUTH. THE Truth will set you free  2 Samuel 7:28 CJB Now, Adonai ELOHIM, you alone are God; your words are truth; and you have made this wonderful promise to your servant. 1 Kings 17:24 CJB The woman replied to Eliyahu, "Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of ADONAI that you speak is the truth." Psalm 25:5 CJB Guide me in your truth, and teach me; for you are the God who saves me, my hope is in you all day long. Psalm 25:10 CJB All ADONAI's paths are grace and truth to those who keep his covenant and instructions. |
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Post by messianicmama on May 2, 2013 10:27:26 GMT -8
I sense the potential that some doubt is being cast on the validity of the Bible (in any form) as the Word of God. When I am confronted by this, I remind people who believe in God of certain facts. Those who don't believe in God are a very different story. When you believe in God, His Omnipotence, and His Omniscience, it is clear that He has the ability to communicate Himself to us and preserve His Word sufficient to guide us. Is any particular manuscript, translation, ... perfect? No, but it is more than sufficient to guide us. Otherwise, you are doubting the power of God. In particular, the guidance of the Holy Spirit teaches each of us directly. Our Saviour has promised and His Word cannot be doubted by those who believe. When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth... He will show you things to come. John 16:13 (FTCABE) I find that verse very comforting... "ALL TRUTH". What a comforting concept when confronted by all the disagreement, confusion, and dispute. We don't need to worry. He has promised. We have a duty to question everything. Accepting what some council decreed thousands of years ago without examining it for ourselves breeds apathy and ignorance. Most Christians reject the because they've been told it's invalid- not because they've researched it themselves. While I an confident that the Bibles on my shelf contain the truth, I am not willing to stop studying and proving everything that I hold to. |
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Post by alon on May 2, 2013 11:21:57 GMT -8
I sense the potential that some doubt is being cast on the validity of the Bible (in any form) as the Word of God. ... Actually, no, I don't see any doubt here. Rather an honest look at what we believe in. Personally, I believe that the book God preserved for us by countless miracles and the sacrifices of untold believers can stand up to any scrutiny. [note: read edit at bottom; apologies if I got it wrong] ABSOLUTELY! I'd guess there is no disagreement here with anyone. However, the fact that we are here also means that we've all been searching for a more accurate understanding of scripture than what we've been presented with thus far. Trying to understand what was really said, why and in what context is not doubt, rather faith in action! As long as we look at it from that point of view, we are OK. It is important that we discuss these things because as yiska is seeing there are those out there who are looking at scripture to try and discredit it; or who in order to look knowledgeable and thus advance themselves, will give a perverted view of scripture. They will be more than eager to make us look the fool, throwing things in our face that if we want to save our witness to others we'd better be able to answer. Example: using the commentary in my Study TNK, I find numerous instances where it is undeniable that apparent "pagan" practices were instituted into Judaism. In one such place, God even participated in a practice common in Mesopotamia at the time. Gen. ch. 15, vs. 9-21 records God walking between the split halves of animal carcasses as a smoking oven and a flaming torch in order to make a covenant. So, if confronted with this by some wag looking to discredit our belief, how do we respond? Well, since I've given it much thought and talked with others who believe as I do BEFORE it is thrown at me by a non-believer; I'd say that a sovereign and all knowing God chose the right man (Avram) at the right time and in the right place, raised in the right culture to accomplish His will. I'd add that those "pagan" practices were not too far removed from the things their great-great-great granddaddy, Noah, taught them (maybe throw in another great for good measure). So they might not be as "pagan" as they seem. Further, the great pagan himself is known to be a forger. Ex 7:10-12 is a good example of this, and there are many others. God chose what to keep of the cultures around Avram, while other things were forbidden. As always, He meets us where we are at and works from there to complete His purposes in and through us. You can question what I believe in, because I've done so many times over, and it always stands the test. No other "religion" can stand up to this kind of scrutiny. This is the difference in trust and blind faith. Blind faith, if ever questioned and not quickly answered, can be destroyed. Trust based on testing cannot be so easily demolished. Dan C Edit: Frank, I read your post as WE were casting doubt ... if I was wrong and you meant her friend was casting doubt (as a sober second reading suggests might be the case), then I apologize. I'm not editing the main post because it has been up and people have already read it. I'll just take the hit ... sorry. |
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Post by alon on May 2, 2013 11:53:48 GMT -8
... Yes, my friend's friend actually thinks the bible was written 25,000. And no Alon I didn't typo. Sounds silly doesn't it? Sounds like your friend is an Evolutionist, and therefore probably not a believer. Which begs the question, why is it non-believers always want to tell us how to interpret scripture? When and how the Bible was passed down to us? I'd start by exposing the friends motives here, and I mean call it like it is, then attack with the truth. And that is the danger of never questioning ourselves, and finding the answers, beforehand. Because by the time we go back and try to do damage control, everyone has made their opinions and moved on. He has, based on watching some propaganda piece on the History Channel or like, brought into question what you believe in the eyes of others. There is another point, and that is that mermaids exist only in mythology. We've been taught a lie that myths are just stories, used by ancient cultures to teach societal mores. They are in actuality the heart of paganism; they are the pagan bible! What your friend wanted to do was to bring your Bible down to the level of myth, where everything is relative and only at most 25% of any story is true. In talking about such mythical beings as mermaids you unintentionally made an agreement with the devil. We don't even think in such terms, because spiritual warfare is taught to us like we are a bunch of Boy Scouts, yet we're expected to face the Nazi onslaught! But the minute you gave even tacit agreement with something from his belief system, you were in trouble. It's a common tactic, and it has worked on all of us. Dan C |
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Post by yiska on May 2, 2013 12:07:41 GMT -8
Well, I could delete him and tell him why. I don't agree with anything he says that is why I want to make clear to his friends that what he says is his own thinking. Some of them actually agree with him. OY VEY!  it is not a losing battle with myself... it just bothers me that he is leaning them to his thinking. Dangerous!!!! |
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Post by alon on May 2, 2013 12:44:33 GMT -8
[/img] it is not a losing battle with myself... it just bothers me that he is leaning them to his thinking. Dangerous!!!![/quote]If this is in a chat room or fb, then I suppose you'll have to decide whether it is worth your time to stay with them. If you've commited, and have the time and energy, then I'd say hang in there. My experience with these type groups is that if you seriously question their beliefs and make them consider the possibility of a God that holds them accountable, they will eventually dump you as a "friend" anyway. So go get 'em! Either way, something good will come of it! Dan C |
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Post by yiska on May 2, 2013 15:38:48 GMT -8
[/img][/img] it is not a losing battle with myself... it just bothers me that he is leaning them to his thinking. Dangerous!!!![/quote]If this is in a chat room or fb, then I suppose you'll have to decide whether it is worth your time to stay with them. If you've commited, and have the time and energy, then I'd say hang in there. My experience with these type groups is that if you seriously question their beliefs and make them consider the possibility of a God that holds them accountable, they will eventually dump you as a "friend" anyway. So go get 'em! Either way, something good will come of it! Dan C[/quote] I already took him off my FB, I just couldn't take it anymore. I am sure he will soon find out why I deleted him and if he ask me why, I will tell him straight up. I ain't got time for him and his dangerous thinking. Waste of my time to be honest with you. I have tried for a long time to help him and he truly thinks he is right... he is all over the places when it comes to verses. Depending on your own thinking and his own perspective will get him in trouble. He says that all those who have biblical scholars are liars and dont preach straight from the bible. He even told me that he challenge them? I think its best I just delete him and I dont have to see his post anymore. |
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was canonized approximately 400 BC, the Prophets 200 BC ads the Writings 100 BC. The 
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