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Post by alon on Apr 27, 2013 15:10:17 GMT -8
Does anyone know where we get the different customs of tieing tzitzit from? Does it matter what custom a Messianic believer uses?
What about the custom of their being overseen by a Rabbi during the process of spinning the threads/yarns? Is it acceptable for a Messianic to just go to the store and buy wool yarn to tie up tzitzit off the shelf?
Dan C
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Post by messianicmama on Apr 27, 2013 15:34:20 GMT -8
Well, it doesn't seem like all the pomp and circumstance was called for initially. I believe that different rabbis and different sects came up with different tying methods. There are several widely accepted methods in traditional judaism, plus the Karaites have a method. I don't think it matters to the Father. If you went to a congregation that used a certain type I would say to go with the flow, but on you're own I'd do what your comfortable with you could . Tying them is easy. You could easily diy a set.
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Miykhael
Junior Member
To proclaim the Good News of Salvation for our Messiah's return draws near!!!!
Posts: 73 
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Post by Miykhael on Apr 28, 2013 8:46:43 GMT -8
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Post by yiska on Apr 28, 2013 10:39:15 GMT -8
Why not ask your Rabbi and see what he says. he could be of more help to you more than you know.
Just a thought.
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Apr 28, 2013 13:09:36 GMT -8
Well, it doesn't seem like all the pomp and circumstance was called for initially. I believe that different rabbis and different sects came up with different tying methods. There are several widely accepted methods in traditional judaism, plus the Karaites have a method. I don't think it matters to the Father. If you went to a congregation that used a certain type I would say to go with the flow, but on you're own I'd do what your comfortable with you could . Tying them is easy. You could easily diy a set. I agree there is far too much ceremony and tradition rather than a simple following of God's command. I do not find the emphasis on rabbi oversight to be Biblical. I am not a big fan of copying what others do either. I make a careful evaluation of any situation, closely following the Bible, considering the ideas of others, and following the guidance of the Holy Spirit. |
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Post by alon on Apr 28, 2013 19:16:15 GMT -8
LOL, I could probably watch it if my software supported it, according to the little note that poped up. But thanks anyway. Dan C |
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Post by alon on Apr 28, 2013 19:20:59 GMT -8
Why not ask your Rabbi and see what he says. he could be of more help to you more than you know. I don't really have a rabbi, but I did ask the one that gives classes in a nearby town which I attend every Wed. They are pretty liberal in interpreting things like this. That is why I asked here. Dan C |
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Post by yiska on Apr 29, 2013 12:40:13 GMT -8
gotcha! But at least you did ask. Doesn't hurt to ask around for sure!
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Post by Micha'el on Jun 27, 2013 17:19:26 GMT -8
Shalom all, There has been much discussion on this topic, in several fields on the forum. Some points that pertain to keeping the command: 1- Wear tzitzit 2- Have a cord of blue. Some are waiting for messiah to return and Elijah to tell them what the right source for the blue is. And then there is the length.... Safety aside and mans preferences too, there's a verse that says: "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."' this is found in Zech 8:23. Now consider the garment and the men grabbing the tzitzit of a Jew. Consider each tzitzit being at least 3 hands in length so at least 10 could take hold. Any thoughts? Micha'el  |
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Post by alon on Jun 27, 2013 19:09:46 GMT -8
... Safety aside and mans preferences too, there's a verse that says: "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."' this is found in Zech 8:23. Now consider the garment and the men grabbing the tzitzit of a Jew. Consider each tzitzit being at least 3 hands in length so at least 10 could take hold. Any thoughts? Micha'el We-e-e-el-l-l-l, ... I think you may be really 'reaching' a bit there ...  Actually, I've done a bit of research since my OP here and found that the traditions concerning tying tzitzit are mostly due to the inability of Jews to get techelet chords- Romans, diaspora, etc.- so they started tying them so as to remind themselves of the  . I'll see if I can find my notes. Dan C |
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Post by Micha'el on Jun 27, 2013 20:21:10 GMT -8
Shalom, Their inability to get the blue cords....That is not going to change anytime soon. My neighbor is a Chabad Rabbi and I see his tzitzit, they are white (no blue) and quite long, long enough for 10 men to take hold. Tradition vs. command. Wearing the tzitzit is the first step. Do you have any idea why we are commanded to attach a cord of blue, other than Hashem said so? Micha'el |
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Post by alon on Jun 27, 2013 22:31:26 GMT -8
Shalom, ... Do you have any idea why we are commanded to attach a cord of blue, other than Hashem said so? Micha'el Actually, I do. This is from my TNK Study Bible, which is a bit over halfway across the state right now- but I think I can remember it. Tzitzyoth were common in the early biblical period. The impression of a tassle from a kings garment on a clay tablet was the same as the wax impression of a signet ring we are so familiar with from our own medieval history. Sometimes nobility would cut a tassel from their hem and send it with a messenger to verify his authority to speak in the nobles stead. The techelet dye was the same as was used on the priests garments. This identifies the wearer with the priests of God and so with the God they served/represented. They did say it was a sort of purple-blue, which I don't get from the modern "techelet". Not sure where they got the shade from, though I'd guess from the Talmud. Any way, that's what I got and from where. Couldn't find my notes on tying either. Dan C |
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Post by Frank T. Clark on Jun 28, 2013 11:42:10 GMT -8
I did a study long ago (long lost?) which showed that "blue" is symbolic of God's Law. We can see this from the association in Numbers 15 and also that God's throne is made of blue stone. Somewhere it implies/says (tradition?) that the original stone tablet for the Ten Words came from the throne. I have seen several presentations on the subject of the blue being symbolic of the Law. I suspect an Internet search could locate some of those presentations. Found one so far: www.3abn.com/Download.html?DP000009 |
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Post by alon on Jan 25, 2014 13:55:43 GMT -8
I've been thinking of making a mesh tallit katan, and tying tzitziyot with only three knots- all blue. The chords would be long enough to protrude from long shirttails. Obviously the three knots have a lot of significance to me, especially as Hashem chose to reveal Himself in three distinct personalities. Debating whether to do this or just tie one knot; or maybe one white knot to signify the unity (echad) of God and the three blue- then lo and behold I am pretty sure I saw Rabbi Reuel's tallit gadol had tzitziyot with only three blue knots!
Did I see correctly? I hope this isn't too personal- if it is I apologize. But I am trying to find a balance between just going off and doing my own thing and, as Frank rightly points out getting too bogged down in the traditions of man vs. scriptural commandments.
Dan C
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