The Bride Of Adonai

[ronshua]

Note from Admin: I have started this thread to re-direct a conversation taking place in a thread where it didn't belong...and I have moved the posts in question to this thread. The subject was initiated with the following comments from Ronshua:

Greetings Dan C , only one verse can you find " Marriage Supper of the Lamb " Rev. 19:9 . I hold Revelations as special . Because of Rev. 22:18-19 ; 18 `For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,
19 and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'

I make every effort not to add it to other Scripture verse .

The verses you show , Mat 22 & Rev 19 . You see above how I see Rev , Matt.22 , look how it reads , 29 And Jesus answering said to them, `Ye go astray, not knowing the Writings, nor the power of God;
30 for in the rising again they do not marry, nor are they given in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven.
31 `And concerning the rising again of the dead, did ye not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not a God of dead men, but of living.'

There are NO marriages in heaven ! Scripture is filled with similes , idioms , parables , analogies , metaphors & smiles to trick the wise . Have you ever done a word search of bride in Scripture ? " prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. " is the theme .

" At any rate, as I see that picture we can walk away, but He will not put us away without cause. God is faithful."
I agree with you here . If your looking for guidance , get a hold of an admin here I'm sure they will help anyway they can .

Peace .

[alon]

ronshua, I agree about Revelation being special in many ways. But I always took the Marriage Supper to be part of the wedding analogy. I don't necessarily envision it as a supper as we know of it here though; it is a mystery held for us at that time.

Agree that we will not marry after rising, and the Supper is only an analogy. But so is the whole comparison of the church being the "Bride of Christ."

By the way, I take that warning about not adding to or changing seriously both in Revelation and as a hint to be careful with the rest of the Word as well. That said, I'm sure my understanding needs tweeking, as you said. One of these days I'd like to get over and visit them in Spokane and talk in person. But that is not really possible right now. We'll see what they say here.

Todah.

Dan C

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

B"H

Indeed, there will be a final betrothal that will take place in the acharit hayamim (end of days) and it will be just as real as any of our Earthly marriages...in fact even more so.

Revelation 19:7-9 are the very words of God that should not be diminished in any way...for that would truly be taking away from His word, as the book of Revelation states. We should absolutely receive the following truth in all its fullness;

"Let us rejoice and be glad! Let us give him the glory! For the time has come for the wedding of the Lamb, and his Bride has prepared herself - fine linen, bright and clean has been given her to wear." ("Fine linen" means the righteous deeds of God's people.) The angel said to me, "Write: 'How blessed are those who have been invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb!'" Then he added, "These are God's very words."

Yeshua's teaching about no marriages in the Kingdom has a particular context that shouldn't escape us. It is between humans on Earth. Our marriages are a model that teach us about the Heavenly reality between God's people and Himself, a doctrine that is thoroughly established throughout the TeNaKh. Once we reach the goal, we will have also reached the true reality that marriage between man and woman teaches us about.

Chen v'shalom aleychem,

R' Reuel

[ronshua]

Greetings R'Reuel , when you quoted " These are God's very words." , you did mean ; The angel said to me, "Write: 'How blessed are those who have been invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb!'" Then he added, "These are God's very words."
The Hebrew Idiom of the " Marriage / marriage supper " is a great teaching tool but , Idiom never the less .

Revelation 19:9
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
9 And he saith to me, `Write: Happy [are] they who to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb have been called;' and he saith to me, `These [are] the true words of God;'

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

( figuratively, Rev. 19:7, as distinct from the "marriage feast" (v. 9); (b) "the marriage feast," )
( In Rev. 19, where, under the figure of a "marriage," the union of Christ, as the Lamb of God, with His heavenly bride is so described, the marriage itself takes place in heaven during the Parousia, Rev. 19:7 (the aorist or point tense indicating an accomplished fact; the bride is called "His wife"); the "marriage feast" or supper is to take place on earth, after the Second Advent, Rev. 19:9. That Christ is spoken of as the Lamb points to His atoning sacrifice as the ground upon which the spiritual union takes place. The background of the phraseology lies in the OT description of the relation of God to Israel, e.g., Isa. 54:4,ff.; Ezek. 16:7,ff; Hos. 2:19; (c) "marriage" in general, including the "married" state, which is to be "had in honor," Heb. 13:4, RV. )


Topic: Marriage (give in), Marry

<A-1,Noun,1062,gamos>
"a marriage, wedding," or "wedding feast," is used to denote (a) the ceremony and its proceedings, including the "marriage feast," John 2:1,2; of the "marriage ceremony" only, figuratively, Rev. 19:7, as distinct from the "marriage feast" (v. 9); (b) "the marriage feast," RV in Matt. 22:2-4,9; in Matt. 22:8,10, "wedding;" in Matt. 25:10, RV "marriage feast;" so Luke 12:36; 14:8; in Matt. 22:11,12, the "wedding garment" is, lit., "a garment of a wedding." In Rev. 19, where, under the figure of a "marriage," the union of Christ, as the Lamb of God, with His heavenly bride is so described, the marriage itself takes place in heaven during the Parousia, Rev. 19:7 (the aorist or point tense indicating an accomplished fact; the bride is called "His wife"); the "marriage feast" or supper is to take place on earth, after the Second Advent, Rev. 19:9. That Christ is spoken of as the Lamb points to His atoning sacrifice as the ground upon which the spiritual union takes place. The background of the phraseology lies in the OT description of the relation of God to Israel, e.g., Isa. 54:4,ff.; Ezek. 16:7,ff; Hos. 2:19; (c) "marriage" in general, including the "married" state, which is to be "had in honor," Heb. 13:4, RV.

www2.mf.no/bibelprog/vines?word=%AFt0001765

Revelation 21
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more;
2 and I, John, saw the holy city -- new Jerusalem -- coming down from God out of the heaven,

made ready AS a bride adorned for her husband;

3 and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, `Lo, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them -- their God,
4 and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'

5 And He who is sitting upon the throne said, `Lo, new I make all things; and He saith to me,

`Write, because these words are true and stedfast;'


Peace .

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

B"H

Shalom Ronshua,

Greetings R'Reuel , when you quoted " These are God's very words." , you did mean ; The angel said to me, "Write: 'How blessed are those who have been invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb!'" Then he added, "These are God's very words."

Yes, that is exactly what I posted, so indeed, I did mean what I accurately quoted from scripture. I didn't mis-quote scripture, if that is what you are implying. It is a completely valid translation.

Where my confusion lies is why you are compelled to overlook the clear context of what Yeshua speaks of when he speaks of not having marriages in the coming kingdom, as it is evident that the context is between earthly man and woman. Is it not? Therefore, you have completely mis-quoted Yeshua and the intent of his statement.

The context of what Yeshua speaks of when he speaks of no marriages taking place in the coming Kingdom is most certainly not Adonai's marriage between himself and his bride, something that the book of Revelation is clear on that will happen in the future...as it is written, "For the time has come for the wedding of the Lamb, and his Bride has prepared herself"... and "'How blessed are those who have been invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb!'".

By making this claim you contradict and subtract from Messiah Yeshua's words in several other places as well. A few examples of this to read would be Mattityahu (Matthew) 22:2 where Yeshua states, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding feast for his son..." and in Mattityahu 25:1 where he teaches, "The Kingdom of Heaven at that time will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom".

When Yeshua does speak of no marriages between mankind in the future Kingdom of Heaven, as we see him stating in Mattityahu (Matthew) 22:30; "For in the Resurrection, neither men nor women will marry; rather, they will be like angels in heaven"...perhaps the reason why there cannot be marriages between mankind (between men and women) in the coming Kingdom is because when we have reached the goal, there can be no other marriages between God's people and someone else...only between Himself and His bride.

Perhaps Sha'ul eludes to this truth in 1Corithians 7:32-35 when he states, "What I want is for you to be free of concern. An unmarried man concerns himself with the Lord's affairs, with how to please the Lord; but the married man concerns himself with the world's affairs, with how to please his wife; and he finds himself split. Likewise the woman who is no longer married or the girl who has never been married concerns herself with the Lord's affairs, with how to be holy both physically and spiritually; but the married woman concerns herself with the world's affairs, with how to please her husband. I am telling you this for your own benefit, not to put restrictions on you - I am simply concerned that you live in a proper manner and serve the Lord with undivided devotion".

When we reach the goal, and the only marriage we have is between ourself and God, than the above goal will have been reached.

The Hebrew Idiom of the " Marriage / marriage supper " is a great teaching tool but , Idiom never the less .

Whether it is an idiom or not, the fact is that God says there will be a "wedding" between Himself and His people, and you say there will not be one. Either way you are contradicting His word. But, in reality, I don't believe it really is an idiom. I believe we are the shadow, and what takes place in the Kingdom is the real thing. What Adonai speaks of in the book of Revelation and through the scriptures is the true reality. If anything, our Earthly marriages between man and woman are the idiom, as they point us to the Heavenly reality.

Ephesians 5:31-33 speaks of this. It states, "Therefore a man will leave his father and mother and remain with his wife, and the two will become one." There is profound truth hidden here, which I say concerns the Messiah and the Messianic Community. However, the text also applies to each of you individually..."

Indeed, a true marriage will be taking place, just as Adonai has stated. You can try to spiritualize it all away, but it is a real future event that is yet to take place, and the text communicates that there are even invitations given out to attend this event. And, yes almost anyone with a Strongs or Vines concord. can see that the text literally uses the word "marriage" twice in the Greek. And, the text does communicate that these are the words of God. He calls it a "marriage". Adonai is indeed "married" to His people Yisra'el, his bride, in the coming Kingdom of Heaven. It is not just an idiom. As I mentioned, this doctrine is thoroughly established throughout the TeNaKh, and is of great importance to the God of Yisra'el.

Your quoting of Young's literal translation and Vines definitions really does nothing to refute the truth I bring forth here. I would also like to caution you, because by making these statements you are indeed subtracting from the words of Adonai, as He says that there will be a "marriage"...and you are communicating to the contrary. All of the words in the book of Revelation are from God, and they are not to be dismissed...wouldn't you agree? This is no doubtful disputation or some gray area in the scriptures...this is clear Biblical truth, and one of theological importance.

The truth is...if someone is not at this marriage event...such a one will also not be saved. Therefore, the doctrine of the marriage between God and His people in the coming Kingdom is indeed a salvation related doctrine (a doctrine that is important to our salvation).

Chen v'shalom aleychem,

R' Reuel