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Post by zionlion on Apr 19, 2010 20:03:02 GMT -8
And Yeshua began to say to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He!' and will mislead many."[Mark 13:5-6 / Brit Chadashah](This would be funny if it weren't so  .) www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4vn3n9tpek |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on May 2, 2010 17:52:33 GMT -8
And Yeshua began to say to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He!' and will mislead many."[Mark 13:5-6 / Brit Chadashah](This would be funny if it weren't so .) www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4vn3n9tpekWhy is this ? I do not believe the Rebbe was moshiach, although he was a tzaddik. I disagree with the person on the video, the Rebbe NEVER claimed to be moshiach. It is a common belief in Judaism that in every generation, there is a potential moshiach, and perhaps the Rebbe was that person, but we did not merit the coming of the moshiach during his lifetime. Most Chabadniks I have met do not believe the Rebbe was moshiach, but there is a loud, vocal minority (mostly in Crown Heights and Israel) that makes such a claim. I feel given a little more time, that belief will be eradicated from Lubavtich. |
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Post by zionlion on May 5, 2010 19:30:13 GMT -8
It would be if one person believed that a mortal, sinful man could be Messiah; especially since that man met none of the requirements described in the Tanakh for Messiah. Since the concept of a Messiah comes from the Tanakh, wouldn't it be wise to judge His identity by what the Tanakh teaches about Him? What is the basis for this "common belief"? It is a common belief among Playboy playmates that Hugh Hefner is a great guy. . It's a common belief among Moonies that Sun Yung Moon is the Messiah. . Common beliefs are often fallacies. Yes, to me it is that any of the Rebbe's followers could be so deceived. |
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Post by davidwiseman on May 6, 2010 4:53:22 GMT -8
It would be if one person believed that a mortal, sinful man could be Messiah; especially since that man met none of the requirements described in the Tanakh for Messiah. Since the concept of a Messiah comes from the Tanakh, wouldn't it be wise to judge His identity by what the Tanakh teaches about Him? What is the basis for this "common belief"? It is a common belief among Playboy playmates that Hugh Hefner is a great guy. . It's a common belief among Moonies that Sun Yung Moon is the Messiah. . Common beliefs are often fallacies. Yes, to me it is that any of the Rebbe's followers could be so deceived. I think that Orthodox, Messianics, and Christians all tend to have an overly simplified view of interpretation of Messianic prophecies. Think about it in a context of first century BC. You have passages promising a leper-scholar (Is. 53), and passages promising a conquering king in the line of David (II Sam. 7). You have passages that seem to indicate He will be from the northern tribes (Gen. 49). We have indications of a priestly Messiah (Num. 24:17), etc. Yes, you and I can understand all of this, but that is because hindsight it twenty-twenty. Once Rabbeinu Yeshua and His talmidim explained these things to us it is easy to understand how it all fits together. Without that example, though, literally just about anything goes in Messianic interpretation. Without the Mashiach having already explained this to us it would be easy to justify the Lubavitcher Rebbe as Mashiach. And by the way, Chabad, and especially Reb Schneerson, has so many good things to say I hope no one will be discouraged from reading some of what they have to say by this. I really think that Chabad is the best of the  movement, and we can learn a lot from Reb Schneerson. He was a chassid in the truest sense of the word. |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on May 9, 2010 12:02:40 GMT -8
It would be if one person believed that a mortal sinful man could be Messiah Ah, I forgot that we have different concepts of who and what the moshiach will be. A question, do you think that a person can meet some of the requirements, but not all, to be moshiach? |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on May 9, 2010 12:04:28 GMT -8
Agreed.
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Post by zionlion on May 10, 2010 7:11:01 GMT -8
tonga, We've been "talking" for 7 months and you forgot that we have different concepts of the Messiah? How does that happen?  My concept comes from Moses and the prophets. Where does yours come from? An answer: In a word - no. |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on May 10, 2010 9:49:44 GMT -8
tonga, We've been "talking" for 7 months and you forgot that we have different concepts of the Messiah? How does that happen? Very easily when you get old. I actually forgot what forum I was posting on! Same source, different interpretation. |
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Post by davidwiseman on May 10, 2010 15:48:27 GMT -8
tonga, We've been "talking" for 7 months and you forgot that we have different concepts of the Messiah? How does that happen? My concept comes from Moses and the prophets. Where does yours come from? An answer: In a word - no. With all due respect, mightn't your statement about Moses and the prophets be just slightly overconfident? Also, if no one can ever fulfill only some of the requirements to be the Mashiakh, wouldn't you have to say that no one other than Mashiakh of the house of David could ever be born in Beith-Lekhem? |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on May 10, 2010 15:57:46 GMT -8
oops, error. deleted.
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Post by zionlion on May 10, 2010 18:33:43 GMT -8
tonga, Yeah, we're all getting older and wiser. (well, older anyway)  |
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Post by zionlion on May 10, 2010 18:44:22 GMT -8
davidwiseman, Overconfident? Not quite sure what you mean. Please elaborate. Just to be clear, I mean no disrespect to Rebbe Schneerson. There's no  in being unqualified to be the Anointed One. |
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Post by davidwiseman on May 10, 2010 20:09:45 GMT -8
davidwiseman, Overconfident? Not quite sure what you mean. Please elaborate. Just to be clear, I mean no disrespect to Rebbe Schneerson. There's no in being unqualified to be the Anointed One. You didn't intend to imply that it was impossible to derive your opponent's views from Moses and the Prophets? If you didn't mean to imply that then I apologize, but that view seemed a bit over the top. I didn't think you did. Partly because I don't think that the Lubavitcher Rebbe ever claimed to be Mashiakh. On the other hand, I find it odd that you would say no one could ever fulfill even some of the prophecies. Anyone that is a scion of David fulfills some of the prophecies. Rabban Yeshua was certainly not the only descendant of David. |
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Post by zionlion on May 11, 2010 9:41:48 GMT -8
Shalom davidwiseman,
Thanks for explaining.
Yes, there were other descendants of David, but since the prophesies refer to a Divine Being, they aren't applicable to any mortal, then or now.
Can any mortal remove sin from the house of Jacob and the house of Israel?
Blessings
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Post by David Ben Yosef on May 11, 2010 12:41:01 GMT -8
Yes, there were other descendants of David, but since the prophesies refer to a Divine Being, they aren't applicable to any mortal, then or now. I'm curious. Which prophecies regarding Mashiakh refer to a divine being? Also, can you please give us your definition of the word mortal, as used in the above quote? Shalom |
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and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you. [Numbers 15:16]
movement, and we can learn a lot from Reb Schneerson. He was a chassid in the truest sense of the word.
in being unqualified to be the Anointed One.
