Payot

[lawrenceofisrael]

To all my brothers and sisters in Yeshua,
Shalom ve rachem uvracha b´shem Yeshua melech hamoshiach.

This is a topic i´ve recently heard about the first time. The Payot or tendrils that some chasidic jews use to wear are they commanded or not. Now i know of the most scholars or teacher that they say it is an addition made by the rabbis and thus false a a few brothers however seem to represent another opinion.

As far as i know the commandment says that men should not completely shave of their hair which means they shall not be bold, unless their age would make them bold.

What do you think??
Thanks for any answers
ve shalom ve rachem uvracha b´shem Yeshua melech ha moshiach.

[David Ben Yosef]

Feb 22, 2010 13:44:47 GMT -8 @lawrenceofisrael said:

Now i know of the most scholars or teacher that they say it is an addition made by the rabbis and thus false...

Shalom.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I'm curious about the above comment.

Question one...Just who are the "most scholars, or teachers" your referring to? Surely not scholars, or teachers of Judaism.

Question two...an "addition" to what, the commandments of HaShem? If so, the Rabbi's draw their halacha from the Tanakh, and are therefore scriptural. They don't just pull them out of thin air.

Question three...why is Rabbinical halacha false, if it can be confirmed by the Tanakh? These scholars, and teachers you speak of seem to be presumptuous concerning Orthodox halacha. I wonder where they received the authority to dismiss whatever halacha they like.

I'm just curious as to your thoughts on these things.

[lawrenceofisrael]

Shalom ve rachem aleichem

Im talking about the brothers who really studied scripture and maybe even learned ancient hebrew and are familiar with all kinds of ancient tradition in Yisrael and the lands surrounding it.

The Rabbis draw some of their teachings from tenach but it´s not mentioned anywhere for example that one should recite the so called blessing of the sun. That is clearly one of the many additional commandments the rabbis wrote into talmud and such additions are obviously forbidden.

Rabbinic halacha is ok as long as it doesn´t contradict the scripture or adds anything to it. I believe that some things need interpretation and actually i believe that some commandments mention one specific theme but contain quite a lot more so there sometimes is a need for interpretation. For example i am a supporter of gender seggregation at least to a certain extent which is also common among chasidic jews. However i completely deny any rabbinic claims that the mesusah has power over the well-being of a household.

I hope that answers your questions and my question still stands. What do you and the brothers say about payot? Commanded or man-made?

ve shalom ve rachem aleichem b´shem Yeshua

[tonga]

Well, here is the exact text:

Lev 19:27: You shall not round off the corner of your head, and you shall not destroy the edge of your beard.

How would you interpret this?

[lawrenceofisrael]

Right the edge of the beard is what i´ve heard the rabbis interpreting as the beard without moustache and i don´t shave so on this topic i completely agree with the rabbinic thinking and i know a lot brothers who also stay away from their razor blade. However i cut my moustache but leave the rest of the beard growing freely.

The part concerning the hair i´ve heard is talking about not cutting of the hair completely meaning not making boldness upon my head unless nature and time will do that for me.

But that is exactly what im asking all of you what you think of this passage. Personally i do not intend to grow payot but i´ve heard of some guys, not all of them can be considered brothers by the way, who grow payot

ve shalom ve rachem uvracha.

[zionlion]

It may be more important to know where I can find atonement if I cut my hair or trim my beard; for I have never known a man who lived his entire life without doing either.

Since Chasidic Judaism was begun in the 18th century by a rabbi not in covenant fellowship with Elohim and heavily influenced by Kabalistic teaching, I wouldn't consider their doctrine a legitimate expression of faith in Him.

[lawrenceofisrael]

Your absolutely right considering the second part of your comment.
However i believe there is enough prove in the bible for the beard. Your right though after i read this passage i stopped shaving but when having a job interview and i was still weak in faith at that time i shaved. But after that i guess since 2 years or so i did not shave anymore.

[zionlion]

I used to have a beard and I kept it trimmed.
I'm thankful that the atoning blood of Messiah covers this transgression.

Do you think the verse (Lev.19:27) is saying that all men should have beards?

[lawrenceofisrael]

yep i believe so. I do not believe that somebody becomes a disbeliever because he shaves but i think there´ll be less reward for him in this life and in paradise.
I also believe that a beard has many blessings in it such as visible distinction from women and disbelievers and being set apart from the infidels in general. We also know that some famous biblical figures had beards and the Israelites under King David would start a war because some brothers were dishonoured by another nation when they cut off half of their beards.
It is also written in the scripture that moshiach had a beard.

however i advice anybody to not focus on this one right at the beginning. Rather one should start with growing in faith and slowly getting into the practice of the .
It´ll all come with the time if all of us be patient and steadfast in prayer and faith. May the almighty strenghten us all on the narrow path amin

[zionlion]

You make some very convincing points about beards.
Guess I'll have to put away the old Norelco.

Shabbat Shalom.